Earlier Permanent Settlement of New France

Status
Not open for further replies.
I'm guessing that there will be no American Revolution in this TL. In OTL, it became a real possibility only after the French had been eliminated as a significant threat to the British colonies.

In fact... it seems to me that given the much greater military potential of the French colonies compared to those of the English, there is a window of opportunity for the English (British after 1707) colonies to be driven into the sea, allowing all of North America north of the Spanish domains to be under the potential control of the French.
 
Hey Virato!

I discovered your TL here because there are a number of themes in it which are similar to the ones I'm going to be exploring in Donnacona's Dream, but I'm definitely proceeding at a MUCH slower pace...

As most of the research I've done recently is about the 16th century, I have a couple of questions for you about events before 1600:

1) What happened to the St. Lawrence Iroquoains in your TL?? They were the folks who were living in the St. Lawrence valley at the time of Cartier's voyages, who had disappeared OTL by the time of Champlain's voyages 70 years later. You talk about early contacts with the Iroquois, but at the time the St. Lawrence Iroquoains would have lived BETWEEN New France and the Iroquois. So, I'm just curious about what happened to them? Did they disappear, as in OTL? This is a part of the story I'd be VERY interested to hear about, and sadly seems to be missing....

2) What was the economic incentive for the survival of Charlesbourg-Royal?? It was originally founded to exploit the "gold and diamonds" that King Francis had been convinced lay in the "Kingdom of the Saguenay", and one of the reasons it was abandoned was that there WERE no gold or diamonds. Colonization in the 16th century would have been a lot more expensive than colonization in later centuries, and it was only really attempted in places where it had a pretty obvious economic benefit (like gold in New Spain, sugar planatations in the Caribbean, etc.). One of the reasons that in OTL the colonization of New France didn't really get going until the 17th century was that it was much cheaper to set up temporary summer fur trade posts than it was to set up actual colonies, and so traders could profit from the fur trade without having to pay to ship colonists, livestock, farm tools, food to feed the colonists for the first year, etc. from Europe. The reason that permanent settlements were set up OTL at the beginning of the 17th century was because of a desire to enforce a monopoly over the fur trade. So I'm curious what went differently to make it profitable to set up colonies earlier, or what other motivation King Francis has for doing so??

I just want to mention that the fact that I'm asking questions doesn't mean that I don't like what you're doing with this TL or where it's going, just that maybe you should think a little more about some of the details, and firm up some of those details before going further.... But that could also just be my particular preference for more detailed over less detailed TLs...
 
The reason I was interested in Charlesbourg-Royal is because one of my professors from university did archaeology at the site of Charlesbourg-Royal (and Louisbourg too). He doesn't think much of counter-factual history, but he's written quite a few books on New France and Louisiana so I've become fascinated with French North America. I studied New England's history and how poorly Plymouth Plantation did early on, so it didn't seem too odd to have New France survive.

I did discuss with my professor what the goal of New France was early on. Based on the documentation of the time and the items found at the site, Charlesbourg-Royal was meant to be an actual self-sufficient settlement that would support French trading ventures (in Asia originally). The goal wasn't originally to get gold and diamonds, however Cartier thought they had struck it rich with "fool's gold" iron pyrite and quartz crystals. He thought this would be an incentive for the king to provide funds for additional voyages. So obviously financial gain was most prominent, but it needed to be cloaked in the guise of spreading the faith.

Back to the settlement, when archaeology work was conducted, the graves of 85 Europeans were found at Charlesbourg-Royal, including women, indicating this was to be a settlement colony. Carpenters, priests, engineers and farm animals were brought over as were farm tools. What is interesting was that women of upper class lineage were settled there too (meaning it was more than just a trading post). Charlesbourg-Royal even had a bakery and mill.

On paper at least, the greatest motivation for the settlement (at least on paper) was to spread the Catholic religion. France had a weak claim to North America (compared to Spain) and to counter the Treaty of Tordesillas they would undertake missionary work. One of Roberval's missions as lieutenant-general was to "spread the holy Catholic faith". He was charged with building churches and fortified towns.

Regarding the Iroquois, there were the "Laurentian Iroquois" living along the St. Lawrence River when Cartier reached the area 1535-36, however by the time de Champlain showed up in 1603, there was no trace of them. All of the great settlements such as Hochelaga had disappeared.

There are several theories as to what happened to the Iroquois living in the St. Lawrence Valley, but it seems that until around 1550-1600 the St. Lawrence River Valley was a place of open warfare. Most likely, the Mohawk (located in present-day New York) attacked the "Laurentian Iroquois" to drive them out of their position on the St. Lawrence, as Europeans were already entering the area to trade. By the time Champlain arrived he did mention that the Algonquins were fearful of the Iroquois to the South (who had confederated around 1590).

By the time Champalin arrived, both the Algonquins and Mohawks were using the river valley as a hunting ground and a route for trading and war, neither group had permanent settlements anywhere up river from Tadoussac (a fur trading post).

Also, climate change and exposure to European diseases definitely had an impact. We know now that European diseases spread to areas of the continent before any Europeans had even reached those areas. The Basques for instance had been whaling along the river throughout the 16th century.

Finally, I could have been more detailed, but I didn't want to bore people and my real interest is getting to the 18th century and the impact that New France will have on the world.

Hey Virato!

I discovered your TL here because there are a number of themes in it which are similar to the ones I'm going to be exploring in Donnacona's Dream, but I'm definitely proceeding at a MUCH slower pace...

As most of the research I've done recently is about the 16th century, I have a couple of questions for you about events before 1600:

1) What happened to the St. Lawrence Iroquoains in your TL?? They were the folks who were living in the St. Lawrence valley at the time of Cartier's voyages, who had disappeared OTL by the time of Champlain's voyages 70 years later. You talk about early contacts with the Iroquois, but at the time the St. Lawrence Iroquoains would have lived BETWEEN New France and the Iroquois. So, I'm just curious about what happened to them? Did they disappear, as in OTL? This is a part of the story I'd be VERY interested to hear about, and sadly seems to be missing....

2) What was the economic incentive for the survival of Charlesbourg-Royal?? It was originally founded to exploit the "gold and diamonds" that King Francis had been convinced lay in the "Kingdom of the Saguenay", and one of the reasons it was abandoned was that there WERE no gold or diamonds. Colonization in the 16th century would have been a lot more expensive than colonization in later centuries, and it was only really attempted in places where it had a pretty obvious economic benefit (like gold in New Spain, sugar planatations in the Caribbean, etc.). One of the reasons that in OTL the colonization of New France didn't really get going until the 17th century was that it was much cheaper to set up temporary summer fur trade posts than it was to set up actual colonies, and so traders could profit from the fur trade without having to pay to ship colonists, livestock, farm tools, food to feed the colonists for the first year, etc. from Europe. The reason that permanent settlements were set up OTL at the beginning of the 17th century was because of a desire to enforce a monopoly over the fur trade. So I'm curious what went differently to make it profitable to set up colonies earlier, or what other motivation King Francis has for doing so??

I just want to mention that the fact that I'm asking questions doesn't mean that I don't like what you're doing with this TL or where it's going, just that maybe you should think a little more about some of the details, and firm up some of those details before going further.... But that could also just be my particular preference for more detailed over less detailed TLs...
 
The reason I was interested in Charlesbourg-Royal is because one of my professors from university did archaeology at the site of Charlesbourg-Royal (and Louisbourg too). He doesn't think much of counter-factual history, but he's written quite a few books on New France and Louisiana so I've become fascinated with French North America. I studied New England's history and how poorly Plymouth Plantation did early on, so it didn't seem too odd to have New France survive.

I did discuss with my professor what the goal of New France was early on. Based on the documentation of the time and the items found at the site, Charlesbourg-Royal was meant to be an actual self-sufficient settlement that would support French trading ventures (in Asia originally). The goal wasn't originally to get gold and diamonds, however Cartier thought they had struck it rich with "fool's gold" iron pyrite and quartz crystals. He thought this would be an incentive for the king to provide funds for additional voyages. So obviously financial gain was most prominent, but it needed to be cloaked in the guise of spreading the faith.

I wasn't saying that the goal wouldn't have been a self-sufficient settlement, but that the resources to set up a self-sufficient colony had to come from somewhere, and that, in the case of Charlesbourg-Royal, they came from King Francis. And, at least from the sources I read (again, I'm not going to dispute the fact that this particular piece of history is old enough that there will totally be other sources that say other things), King Francis' decision to support the expedition was motivated by the stories he had heard from Donnacona, a St. Lawrence Iroquoain leader whom Cartier had brought to France at the end of his second voyage. Donnacona told of a "Kingdom of the Saguenay" rich in gold and diamonds, and, again the sources I've read said that King Francis was convinced by these stories, and that is why he funded the expedition. When Cartier sent back "gold" and "diamonds" that weren't gold and diamonds, he decided to stop funding the expedtion, or at least that's how I understood it...

Back to the settlement, when archaeology work was conducted, the graves of 85 Europeans were found at Charlesbourg-Royal, including women, indicating this was to be a settlement colony. Carpenters, priests, engineers and farm animals were brought over as were farm tools. What is interesting was that women of upper class lineage were settled there too (meaning it was more than just a trading post). Charlesbourg-Royal even had a bakery and mill.

On paper at least, the greatest motivation for the settlement (at least on paper) was to spread the Catholic religion. France had a weak claim to North America (compared to Spain) and to counter the Treaty of Tordesillas they would undertake missionary work. One of Roberval's missions as lieutenant-general was to "spread the holy Catholic faith". He was charged with building churches and fortified towns.

I don't dispute any of this. I agree that Charlesbourg-Royal was intended to be a settlement colony. But, part of the reason that no more settlement colonies were attempted for at least 60 years after was because, after the initial failure, people realized how much more resources would be necessary to actually succeed, and they gave up until the fur trade became lucrative enough to support a permanent settlement. So, I guess really my main question is how the initial failure was avoided. Did Cartier piss off the natives less? Were the winters less severe? Did he get along with Roberval better? These are the sort of questions I want to see answered, but I totally understand that that's not your priority.

Regarding the Iroquois, there were the "Laurentian Iroquois" living along the St. Lawrence River when Cartier reached the area 1535-36, however by the time de Champlain showed up in 1603, there was no trace of them. All of the great settlements such as Hochelaga had disappeared.

I think I understand what you're saying. I think you're using the term "Iroquois" to mean what I mean when I say "Iroquoains". I only use the term Iroquois to refer to those nations that were part of the Haudenosaunee Confederacy, and thus thought you were talking about the Mohawks when you said "Iroquois". In the terminology I use, "Iroquois" is a specific term to refer to the Mohawk, Oneida, Onondonga, Cayuga, and Seneca, while Iroquoains also refers to them plus the Hurons, Laurentians (Hochelagans, Stadaconans, etc. who I call St. Lawrence Iroquoains), Neutral, Erie, etc. So now I think I understand better.

There are several theories as to what happened to the Iroquois living in the St. Lawrence Valley, but it seems that until around 1550-1600 the St. Lawrence River Valley was a place of open warfare. Most likely, the Mohawk (located in present-day New York) attacked the "Laurentian Iroquois" to drive them out of their position on the St. Lawrence, as Europeans were already entering the area to trade. By the time Champlain arrived he did mention that the Algonquins were fearful of the Iroquois to the South (who had confederated around 1590).

By the time Champalin arrived, both the Algonquins and Mohawks were using the river valley as a hunting ground and a route for trading and war, neither group had permanent settlements anywhere up river from Tadoussac (a fur trading post).

Also, climate change and exposure to European diseases definitely had an impact. We know now that European diseases spread to areas of the continent before any Europeans had even reached those areas. The Basques for instance had been whaling along the river throughout the 16th century.

This is all OTL. I know the theories about what happened to the St. Lawrence Iroquoains in OUR timeline. My question was about what happened to them in your TL. For example, with fortified French outposts present, would it still be the case that the St. Lawrence River Valley would be a place of open warfare? Or if it was a place of open warfare, would the French still want to settle it??

Finally, I could have been more detailed, but I didn't want to bore people and my real interest is getting to the 18th century and the impact that New France will have on the world.

I totally understand that, and please keep writing. Again, I think I'm just more detail-oriented than you are, and that is totally ok. I just have a hard time reading the rest of a TL if I'm not satisfied that I understand what initially happened around the time of the POD.
 
Map of North America in 1700

North America 1700.png

A small update, a map of North America 1700 showing French, English and Spanish areas of settlement and control. The red dots represent major forts of the respective countries.

North America 1700.png
 
War Part I

Since the end of the last war, the French have been bolstering the defence of New France. They had been preparing for the next war, bolstering their defences, especially fortifications. In Acadia, Newfoundland along Lake Champlain and down the Mohawk Valley fortresses had been built or improved.

The English Colonies had taken some measures as well, all had organized militias and frontier settlements were surrounded by wooden palisades. Forts were built and improved, most notably in Albany, Schenectady and Fort William and Mary in New Castle, New Hampshire. Also, around Boston a series of fortifications were built to encircle the city.

However, one of the major differences between the New France and the English colonies is that the former possesses a unified military command structure, whilst the English colonies have different governments and legislative assemblies that are often stingy with their purse strings. For instance, Massachusetts has been reluctant to contribute funds to the defence of the "frontier settlements" in Maine even in 1703.

Though the war begins in 1702, the first year is a relatively quite one in North America. In September and October of that year, English Captain John Leake destroyed some of the cod drying stages in Newfoundland and undertook a failed attack upon Saint-Pierre, but that was the only action. A small French regiment had arrived at Port Royal in April with the goal of reorganizing the militia and coordinating an invasion force of New England with the Mi'kmaq and the Penobscot. Also, during the Spring of 1703, corps of engineers arrive in Port Royal to improve the fortresses along French Bay (Bay of Fundy). Viceroy Vaudreuil made it clear that his goal was to capture Boston and drive the English from America.

In June of 1703, Massachusetts and New Hampshire Governor Joseph Dudley travels to Casco Bay (Portland, ME) to summon Indian chiefs and ensure their neutrality. He brings lavishes them with gifts and seems assured that they will remain neutral, however many English remain unconvinced. The small settlements along the coast are particularly vulnerable with some consisting of a single family. In vain he hopes that he can at least keep them from allying with France.

Despite the chief's assurances, on August 10 raiding parties from Acadia consisting of Acadians and Abenaki Indians under French command begin overrunning the settlements with Wells falling first followed by Saco, Scarborough, Winter Harbour and Purpooduck. The English fort at Casco Bay is defended by 36 English soldiers, manages to hold the 500 French at bay for 5 days before it capitulates. Many English settlers are killed, others are taken away as prisoners, a few English manage to flee to the south and warn of the impending invasion. By August 17, terror reigns in New Hampshire and people begin to panic and flee. A hastily assembled force of 360 Massachusetts Militia are sent to fight the French, but are ambushed and defeated. The French then overrun both York and Berwick.

Dividing into several parties, the Abenaki and Mi'kmaq are split into several smaller raiding parties to harass and destroy English settlements all the way down to Connecticut and Rhode Island. In New Hampshire, some survivors pour into Fort William and Mary in New Castle, which is being supplied by the Royal Navy, others head for the safety of Fort Anne in Salem. To make matters worse, epidemics of small pox and Scarlett Fever ravage Boston, killing 300 people.

The French lay siege to Fort William and Mary and begin mining the walls, by October it falls and is abandoned to the French who rename it Fort Bourbon. Nearby Dover falls, and the French march into Chelmsford and finally take an English fort at Andover by late October. They also overrun Exeter, Lancaster, Groton and Newbury threatening Boston where they begin to prepare for an assault on the city.

In Massachusetts, the governor calls up the militia and is able to get the legislature to approve a fund 50,000 pounds be spent on defence of the colony. Also, the he appeals to Connecticut and Rhode Island for troops. Meanwhile, he begs the Lords of Trade for troops from England, however he knows these may not arrive until next spring. Therefore, requests are sent to Virginia, Maryland and Pennsylvania for reinforcements. In the meantime small parties of French and Indians have pillaged and destroyed New England as far down as Norwich, Connecticut heading towards New Haven where they are met by a force of Connecticut and New York militia, and forced to retreat back to camp at Worcester, Massachusetts.

By November of 1703, the French have surrounded Boston on the North and West, and have laid siege to the forts surrounding the city with an army of 9,000 men. They had hoped to be able to take the city before winter, however the Royal Navy is still able to supply the city from the Caribbean and other colonies, also 950 English troops arrive from Virginia along with 1,200 militiamen from other colonies. Throughout the winter of 1703-1704, coastal Massachusetts suffers the French siege and occasional skirmishes with the Indians. The British hope to break out, but the situation is at stalemate throughout the winter.

Viceroy Vaudreuil decides to act and assembles a force of 6,500 French and Indian troops who are sent to French forts on Lake Champlain under Hertel de Rouville. They move west and on February 29, 1704 to completely destroy Deerfield Massachusetts, from there move southward capturing Hadley and Northampton and destroying Springfield. From there a small group moves southward to Hartford while the bulk of the troops rendezvous with the Acadians at Andover and Worcester. On March 13, 1704 a naval force consisting of 17 ships of the line along with 5,000 soldiers arrives in Boston. In April an additional 5 ships of the line with 50 guns arrive much to the relief of the local population. They provide a much needed boost to the moral of people in coastal Massachusetts.

The Viceroy reports to France that 2/3 of Massachusetts has been abandoned and requests more French gunships to confront the English at sea. However, only 2 ships are sent with fewer than 300 marines. In May the French attempt an assault on Fort Anne in Salem, however they are forced to retreat to Andover. Further south, the French have more success, capturing Providence in May of 1704. The English for there part attempt to attack the French positions with little success, though in June they do manage to retake Fort William and Henry in New Castle, New Hampshire. In May, New London and New Haven fall to the French, however the British are able to retake New Haven within a month.

Though the French have more success on land with a larger army, the British do have the advantage of their navy. The French Navy is paying scant attention to New France with only a dozen ships of the line protecting the colony. However, the French government is paying privateers known as Corsairs based in the Caribbean to plunder the British settlements and enemy shipping. They are effective enough to cut decrease British trade and commerce in the Americas by 80% by 1706.

Further south, militia from South Carolina manage to destroy 14 Spanish missions in Florida in 1704. However, in October of 1703 the French and Spanish had destroyed British settlements in the Bahamas.
 
Very interesting! Is it likely though that Louis XIV would have still gone through with the Filles du Roy program given that New France has a pretty solid population base in TTL? In OTL, those women were desperately needed to help populate the colony, and Louis went to a fairly significant expense (paying their transit and dowry) to send them.
 
Very interesting! Is it likely though that Louis XIV would have still gone through with the Filles du Roy program given that New France has a pretty solid population base in TTL? In OTL, those women were desperately needed to help populate the colony, and Louis went to a fairly significant expense (paying their transit and dowry) to send them.

Something interesting about the programme was that ostensibly it's purpose was to populate the colony. The reality was that it became a way to rid the French cities especially Paris of socially undesirable women. Most of the girls were orphans, and the percentage from Paris was much higher than the general settler population. However there were also prostitutes and petty criminals. The programme lasted for quite a whlie and during the 18th century Louisiana became the place to do this. However, the French officials in Canada denied this to prospective husbands.

It is interesting to note that they were supposed to receive dowries from the government, but few ever did. I think they would go through with it, especially the orphan girls as most were under the care of religious orders in France and sending them to Canada was seen as a way to rid them of social stigma. In the end, it seems that Canada did offer them a new beginning.

Also, despite a populated colony, there are still going to be "frontier regions" at various times, I think until they're fully settled, they'll still get some brides from France, especially since the first men in these new areas are single.
 
Very interesting so far! I'm looking forward to seeing how the 18th century plays out with a far more populous New France hemming in British North America.

Consider me subscribed! :)
 

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
I think you've come up with convincing arguments for how New France can be demographically expanded by additional manpower investments at the right time.

Over the long haul however, how are the French and colonial governments going to deal with the inherent tension of a more populous, extensive and intensive settler colony, and the relatively friendly policies towards the Amerinds that were easy to pursue in OTL with New France's "light touch" demographically speaking?
 
War Part II

To continue where we left off.

By June of 1704, the French forces have laid siege to many of towns in East of Massachusetts, however they have are bogged down 50 miles west of Boston. The Royal Navy has been able to supply coastal cities and reinforce them during blockades. The French forces in North America have little support from France itself and are largely on their own.

In late June, English reinforcements arrive in Boston from England with over 2,000 soldiers. They begin to plan a counter-offensive to drive the French from New England. Another 1,000 troops and a corps of engineers arrive in New York and head towards Albany. The English troops along with their Iroquois allies begin to reinforce Albany and begin the construction of an impressive stone fort. In July, English troops are able to recapture Providence. By August, they have recaptured Exeter, Lancaster, Groton and Worcester. By September of 1704, English troops have marched up the Connecticut River to Hartford and begin digging in for the winter.

Though numerically superior, French forces have been running out of supplies as the budget allocated to war has been scant. During the winter of 1705 a truce of sorts emerges with an exchange of prisoners. However, the French are still in control of the Connecticut River as far south as Hadley. Though much of New England is back under English control, the French are still a menace, also the colonies are now under military rule.

In September 1706, a joint Franco-Spanish force attempts to capture Charles Town in South Carolina, however this failed. In Virginia the English begin to form an alliance with the Cherokees, paying them to act as a buffer between Virginia and the French settlements west of the Appalachian Mountains.

Also, between 1706-1720 the demands for beaver pelts fell precipitously. In 1702, the French Crown had lifted the duty on beaver pelts being exported from New France, causing a drop in revenue for the colony. A glut of beaver pelts arrives in France with many of them rotting in storehouses. The French trappers who are able to survive begin to diversify, and begin to export other types of fur. Many of the Canadiens whose livelihood had depended on fur turn to farming settling around the Great Lakes. Settlement is pushed further west and to the South.

Beginning in 1699,the Canadiens as the French in North America now call themselves have begun settling along the Gulf Coast in present day Alabama and Mississippi. During the War of Spanish Succession, Mobile (founded in 1702) and Biloxi (1699) become important centres for French privateers who raid British commerce in the Caribbean. With an unhealthy climate and marshy soil, the area is poorly suited for European settlement. Louisiana claims the lives of many of the early settlers, however they are still attracted to the region with the hopes of becoming rich.

In 1707, an English party raids Pensacola in Florida, and a failed attack on Port Royal but otherwise the war is at a lull. The French and their Indian allies control all of present day Maine and Indian raids continue to attack English frontier settlements. Also in 1707, Massachusetts Governor Joseph Dudley had attempted to raise a force to take back New Hampshire, but this failed. Lord Cornbury, the Royal Governor of New York and New Jersey maintains an uneasy truce with the French that will last until 1709.

In June 1708, a French force of 3,500 sets out from Acadia and led by Abenaki scouts attacks northern Massachusetts raiding towns and destroying Haverhill in August of that year. However, British militia from Boston are able to force them to retreat at Andover. Apart from a few forts, New Hampshire remains under French control throughout the rest of the war.

In 1709 Queen Anne commissions Colonel Samuel Vetch and Francis Nicholson to raise a colonial militia and 1,500 British troops arrive in New York to invade Canada and Acadia the following year. To that end, forts are constructed on Lake George in New York. Nicholson arrives in Boston during July of 1710 with 400 English Marines and is able to raise a force of 1,480 colonial militia. In October 1710, Nicholson arrives outside of Port Royal hoping to destroy the French city.

With a militia of 12,000 men, the English are badly outnumbered, but they do have naval superiority. After bombarding the French harbour and sinking two French ships, the English failed to disembark and were forced to retreat to Falmouth, New Hampshire. By November of 1710 however, the British are able to secure coastal New Hampshire. British troops remain stationed here to protect returning settlers from French raids.

The final major plan was an attack at the heart of French power in North America, the city of Quebec. In June of 1711 over 5,000 British troops arrived in Boston with the plan to sail for Quebec in July. However, many of the ships attempting to sail up the Saint Lawrence in July of that year crashed into rocks during foggy and more than 700 men perished. At the same time, Nicholson attempted to invade overland from New York. The first skirmishes with the French were north of Lake George, however a large French force was able to force the British to retreat to Albany having taken Saratoga and Schenectady by August. The French lay siege to Albany during September of 1711, but are unable to take the British fort.

In 1712, an armistice arrives and in 1713 the Treaty of Utrecht is signed. The British surrender their claims to Newfoundland and the Hudson Bay region, but keep the island of Saint Christopher in the Caribbean. However, the British do retain fishing rights in Newfoundland. They also recognize the Abenakis and French subjects and the boundary between Acadia and New England at the Kennebec River.

For the French, the war increased the need to collect more tax revenues. To that end, duties were imposed on imported goods from Metropolitan France including wines, liquors, silks and woolen products. The beaver pelt trade collapsed, however the export of grain from Acadia to the French Caribbean increased.

In the British colonies, the British Parliament began to debate the need of unifying the British colonies so that they could raise a common defence force. Though New Hampshire had been depopulated, between 1713-1720 New England saw the first large migration of Englishmen since the 1660s. Also, trade recovered and Boston, Newport and Portsmouth would emerge as centres of shipbuilding.
 
Population of New France in 1710

Total French Population in 1710
St. Lawrence River Valley 368,799
Ohio River Valley 155,288
Great Lakes Region 174,281
Louisiana 11,655
Acadia 138,277
Newfoundland 37,740
Hudson’s Bay 1,164
TOTAL: 887,204

The British Colonies at this time have a total of 331,000 inhabitants.

I wanted to highlight the native population as they were important actors in New France. With a larger European settlement, unfortunately epidemics would be far more severe. In OTL most of the French settlers in the Great Lakes and Mississippi River valley were French men. However, European children were the greatest transmitters of small pox. So I would expect a higher mortality rate earlier to devastate the native populations. One of France's major goals would be to convert the Indians and to that effect the Jesuits will be the order most involved. Setting up missions and seigneuries such as Sault du Saint Louis south of Montreal, a 20 square mile mission for Mohawks converted to Catholicism.

Also, certain groups such as the Fox and Sauk will fight the French during the early 18th century attempting to either drive out rival tribes from trade or to attack French settlers. The Iroquois still in French territory have been largely driven to the plains where they attack smaller tribes and incorporate the survivors and captives into the Iroquois nation. As French settlement proceeds southward they will eventually come into conflict with the Chickasaw.

Below is an estimated Indian Population in areas of direct French control by 1710 is around 40,000. I have listed the major tribes below.

Abenaki 800, live on lands between New England and Acadia. However, over half are settled on Jesuit Missions.

Fox 2,500 in 1700, they are reduced to fewer than 500 by 1725. They began raids on French settlements in Michigan and the survivors are absorbed into the Sauk.

Huron - 300 left in Huronia, their numbers were devastated early on by disease and warfare and the survivors remain on a seigneurie owned by the Jesuits.

Iroquois 8,000 in French lands (most live West of the Mississippi). However, some of the Iroquois remain East in their traditional homeland of New York under British protection.

Kickapoo 2,000, allies of the French they had taken refuge from the Iroquois during the 17th century in present day Wisconsin.

Menominee 400 (most live on French missions around Detroit)

Miamis 4,000: most fled west to present day Kansas, around 500 still live in Ohio River Valley on French Missions. The latter have a high rate of intermarriage with the French.

Micmaq 3,000 people have Micmaq heritage in Acadia, this number includes a large number people of mixed European and Micmaq ancestry.

Natchez - 6,000 in 1690. Their numbers are reduced by disease and fighting to around 400 by 1720. The survivors join the Choctaw.

Ottawa - 4,000 living in Northern Michigan.

Peoria -fewer than 100 by 1700.

Sauk - 2,500 they engage in a war against the French along with the Fox and are forced to flee West to present-day Iowa.

Shawnee -Around 4,000, originally they lived in the Ohio River Valley but were expelled by the Iroquois during the 17th century. Most fled South to live among the Cherokee. However, around 500 or so live on French missions in Baie-Verte (Green Bay, WI).
 
Not only are you starting colonization earlier, but you're havingFAR more settlers come over than ever came iOTL. France had a terrible, terrible time getting people to settle New France, and wound shipping out prostitutes from prisons, because so very few respectable women would go.,
the founding population of Quebec, iotl, was effectively like 2.5k people.

And you havent explained why ten times as many people are willing to move. You have as many moving in single waves as ever settlled Quebec.

Why, too, would the government support such a very expensive proposition? Because it would be expensive.
 
Not only are you starting colonization earlier, but you're havingFAR more settlers come over than ever came iOTL. France had a terrible, terrible time getting people to settle New France, and wound shipping out prostitutes from prisons, because so very few respectable women would go.,
the founding population of Quebec, iotl, was effectively like 2.5k people.

And you havent explained why ten times as many people are willing to move. You have as many moving in single waves as ever settlled Quebec.

Why, too, would the government support such a very expensive proposition? Because it would be expensive.

In OTL 30,000 French set out for French North America between 1542 and 1760, of those only 27,000 survived the voyage and roughly 14,000 remained.

In my TL only 55,650 French arrive in America before 1700, and I did take into account return migration when calculating population growth, hence around 1/2 made it back to France. Also, I studied the early death rates to account for lower growth during the early years (due to scurvy, Indian attacks etc). Also, I did take into account intermarriage between French men and Indian women.

With earlier colonization, albeit in small numbers the population can grow much like similar "frontier societies". I studied Portuguese colonization of the Azores and Madeira, along with Dutch colonization of South Africa and English colonization of New England. I wanted to look at patterns in migration, death rates, infant mortality, disease, fertility, etc.

Some common occurrences are found in frontier societies. Firstly, unlike in Europe at the time people tend to live spread out rather than in villages. This greatly reduces the spread of disease and helps keep death rates down. Food is usually abundant due to the abundance of land, hence there being little risk of famine early on. Finally, marriage age is a lot younger than in Europe. In these societies, women were getting married much earlier and dowries were not as important due to the availability of land. Also, women tended to have far more children than their contemporaries in Europe because of the larger land holdings requiring more children.

Looking at "frontier regions" firstly the Azores, discovered by the Portuguese in the early 15th century. These islands were colonized by fewer than 4,000 settlers from both Portugal and Flanders. This occurred mainly between 1450-1480. By 1580 the population had risen to around 60,000 and one has to remember that there were thousands of deaths due to outbreaks of the plague along with natural disasters such as volcanoes and earthquakes. In addition, by 1541 the archipelago was so overpopulated that emigration to Brazil had begun and by 1580 an estimated 6,000 Azoreans had made it to Brazil. The Azores provided no cash crops, but they offered open land and the Portuguese crown decided to settle the islands. By the 1520s however the islands themselves were overcrowded and the villages began to resemble the places in mainland Europe where disease could easily spread.

Dutch South Africa too only received a net of 2,044 settlers between 1657 and 1806. By 1806, their descendants numbered 26,720. Even here there were outbreaks of smallpox in 1713 and 1755 killing 7% and 12.7% of the colonists. A century later their population would number just under 1 million.

So after 60 years of colonisation the French population numbers just under 23,000, which does not seem far fetched considering a net of around 4,000 French immigrants arrive during that period. However, outbreaks of disease (including small pox) and a slightly higher mortality do take their toll on the colonists.

During the 1600-1650 period a net of 16,000 settle, encouraged by the French government as by this period New France can be exporting grain to France albeit in small quantities. This would be comparable to New France during the 1700-1760 period when 40% of its immigrants arrived, albeit more attractive with less threats from the English.

During the 1650-1680 period another 9,000 settle permanently in New France. This is mostly encouraged by the French government to counter the English. After this period I have factored a net of around 200 new settlers per year, including around 1,000 prisoners from the English colonies who have been absorbed into the population (around the same number as in OTL).

As for the costs, France was far wealthier and larger than Portugal or the Netherlands, so to think the French crown couldn't bear the cost to send some people to the New World is ludicrous. Like any other power, the incentive would be to control more territory and hope to find wealth there. In the meantime, they are preventing other powers from acquiring said territory.

As for the composition of the immigrants, around 1/3 are indentured servants who are meant to be farmers, but early on many turn to the fur trade. They are recruited individually and in small groups by merchants. Their passage would be paid by merchants and often seigneurs to whom land was granted. Their rate of return would be rather high, especially early on.

The second group is military men, though smaller in number they are granted large tracts of land with the incentive to settle and farm. As in OTL, a larger number of these remained in New France and many would become seigneurs in their own right.

The "filles du roi" and other undesirable women mostly from Paris. By paying their passage, the French crown has a useful outlet for orphan girls along with undesirable women. For the women and girls, the new world offers an escape from stigma and a new beginning.

Clergy also form an important part of the migration. The Jesuits and other religious orders are given land grants and have a mission to convert the indigenous peoples of New France to the Catholic Church. Receiving support from the crown and the Church, this group would be perhaps 5% of all settlers during the 16th and 17th centuries.

There are also convicts. In OTL the French government sent men accused of petty crimes such as stealing and illegal poaching to the New World. Again, this is mutually beneficial for the France along with the colonies. It offers the opportunity to rid France of an undesirable element and offers the criminals a new beginning. Related to this group are disgraced upper class men, often libertines who can start a new beginning in the New World. Also, since seigneuries are purchasable, it money can buy a certain respectability in New France that it can't in France.

Another group that seems to come are skilled craftsmen. In New France the need for carpenters, stone masons, etc was so great that an apprentice could become a tradesman faster than in France. In OTL this was the primary group of settlers that arrived between 1714-1754. In fact 90% of the the skilled craftsman during this period were apprentices or peasants engaged in handicraft.

Finally there were settlers who arrived of their own volition. Perhaps 10% of the total, these tended to be adventurers and people who wanted land. Since New France has expanded beyond the Saint Lawrence River valley, there is an abundance of good farmland available to those willing to take the risk.
 
This is very interesting, but why did not you go further ?

You could have imagined the french successfully settling in the Manhattan area (which they reached in the 16th century) and also colonizing the coast of what was to become New England. English settlers would concentrate only around the Chesapeake bay and south of it.
 
Last edited:
This is very interesting, but why did not you go further ?

You could have imagined the french successfully settling in the Manhattan area (which they reached in the 16th century) and also colonizing the coast of what was to become New England. English settlers would concentrate only around the Chesapeake bay and south of it.

I could have, but to keep butterflies at a minimum for a while, I made the French concentrate on the Saint Lawrence River. I also had to justify the reasons for the French wanting to settle the area, mainly economic incentives which I list below. Also, settlements along the Saint Lawrence are a little bit more defensible against other European powers. During the 16th century attempted French settlements in Florida and Brazil were destroyed by the Spanish and Portuguese respectively. Finally, with a goal of having a large French speaking population, anywhere south of present-day Pennsylvania had a low population growth rate for Europeans (due to disease). Virginia and Maryland for instance had a much lower natural growth rate than New England, and that Georgia and South Carolina was even lower.

French goals during the 16th century the goal would be to found self-sustaining trading settlements. Meaning that the raison d'etre is to trade with the Indians. In the 16th century French traders had already brought back beaver, lynx, marten and otter pelts. Parisian hatters had produced beaver felt hats until the 15th century, but due to the over hunting of the European beaver, turned to poorer quality wool-felt hats (which cost less than 1/3 of the beaver hat). Also, by this time the fall in fur arriving from the Baltic was causing a rise in the price of furs in general. So I imagine that the trading of otter, marten and lynx will occupy a prominent position in the economy of the small colony.

After 1585, beaver pelts will become the primary resource. The best pelts are found in colder climates where the fur is thicker and generally more valuable. This means it is wise to settle further north. Between 1545 and 1605 beaver pelts on the French market continuously rose in prices from around 20 sols tournois per pelt to around 100. By 1605-1615 the price reached 150 sols tournois per pelt. However, the prices would continue to rise reaching 240 sols tournois by 1632.

Also, the French were continuously looking for the Northwest Passage to China, so I imagine the explorers pushing further and further westward along the Saint Lawrence for such a passage. In the meantime, the 1550-1570 and 1585-1600 spikes in cod prices provide a good incentive to establish permanent settlements in Acadia and Newfoundland. Especially with the decline in Portuguese and Spanish fishing in the area, this can help France become preeminent in the trade of salted cod.
 
"The effective founder population of Quebec was only 2,600."
from http://extranet.redeemer.ab.ca/site...tics/Founder effects in human populations.pdf

Now, of course, some people returned, some didn't have kids, etc. But still...

Where did you get your numbers of
"1542 and 1760, of those only 27,000 survived the voyage and roughly 14,000 remained." ?

That link you posted doesn't cite any primary source, or even an author so I cannot verify its veracity. It is true there were around around 3,000 French colonists living in the Saint Lawrence River Valley in the mid-1660s, but the spurt of immigration came afterwards bringing the population to around 10,000 by the early 1680s.

"The People of New France" by Allan Greer 1997

Also, Michael R. Haines & Richard H. Steckel's "A Population History of North America" (2000) breaks down the immigration to New France in different periods.

Period of Arrival
1608-1659 5,043
1660-1679 5,677
1680-1699 3,814
1700-1719 1,692
1720-1739 1,814
1740-1759 6,884

According to the church records New France had a population as follows
1698 13,815
1720 24,434
1739 42,701

Also the immigration from 1608-1699 indicates 12,621 French men came to Canada. Between 1608 and 1700 4,894 French women are recorded as having arrived in New France. Baptismal and death records taken by the church show birthplace of the people. Also, merchant records are widely available.

Between 1663 and 1673 alone 748 "filles du roi arrived" with 314 of those being from Ile de France and 153 from Normandie.

For a sample we can look at 1665. These are all from primary sources.
June 17, 19 two ships from La Rochelle with 4 Companies of Carignan Salieres Regiment.

June 30 - An additional 100 French officers arrive in 4 ships with 1,100 French soldiers to put down the Iroquois.

July 16 - A ship from Le Havre arrives with 21 mares and 2 stallions, on said ship were 8 girls.

August 18-19 - Two more ships with 4 more companies of soldiers arrive in Quebec.

September 12 - Eight more companies of soldiers arrive from France. Also, ships with 400 settlers, including girls arrive.

October 2 - A ship from Normandie arrives with 82 girls and 130 men.

Over 2,000 French arrive in the colony that year.

Also, according to church records as late as 1760 over half of the clergy in New France were born in France, showing there were still immigrants coming over.

As for the assertion that people from France did not emigrate. Between 1600 and 1760 the Laurentian Valley only received around 7 to 8% of French emigrants, many more went to the Antilles and Guiana, however the death rate in these regions was much higher.
 
I could have, but to keep butterflies at a minimum for a while, I made the French concentrate on the Saint Lawrence River. I also had to justify the reasons for the French wanting to settle the area, mainly economic incentives which I list below. Also, settlements along the Saint Lawrence are a little bit more defensible against other European powers. During the 16th century attempted French settlements in Florida and Brazil were destroyed by the Spanish and Portuguese respectively. Finally, with a goal of having a large French speaking population, anywhere south of present-day Pennsylvania had a low population growth rate for Europeans (due to disease). Virginia and Maryland for instance had a much lower natural growth rate than New England, and that Georgia and South Carolina was even lower.

French goals during the 16th century the goal would be to found self-sustaining trading settlements. Meaning that the raison d'etre is to trade with the Indians. In the 16th century French traders had already brought back beaver, lynx, marten and otter pelts. Parisian hatters had produced beaver felt hats until the 15th century, but due to the over hunting of the European beaver, turned to poorer quality wool-felt hats (which cost less than 1/3 of the beaver hat). Also, by this time the fall in fur arriving from the Baltic was causing a rise in the price of furs in general. So I imagine that the trading of otter, marten and lynx will occupy a prominent position in the economy of the small colony.

After 1585, beaver pelts will become the primary resource. The best pelts are found in colder climates where the fur is thicker and generally more valuable. This means it is wise to settle further north. Between 1545 and 1605 beaver pelts on the French market continuously rose in prices from around 20 sols tournois per pelt to around 100. By 1605-1615 the price reached 150 sols tournois per pelt. However, the prices would continue to rise reaching 240 sols tournois by 1632.

Also, the French were continuously looking for the Northwest Passage to China, so I imagine the explorers pushing further and further westward along the Saint Lawrence for such a passage. In the meantime, the 1550-1570 and 1585-1600 spikes in cod prices provide a good incentive to establish permanent settlements in Acadia and Newfoundland. Especially with the decline in Portuguese and Spanish fishing in the area, this can help France become preeminent in the trade of salted cod.

I know but precisely, the french settlements in Florida and Brazil faibles for a precise reason : they were too close to the spanish and portuguese settlements and France was at war with Spain and Portugal.

Colonisation was possible in north America because it was far away enough from the spanish and portuguese possessions.

So imagine the french begin settling 100 to 50 years before the english, dutch or swedes try. They would probably be unexpellable.
 
I've read that one of the reasons for New France growing more slowly than the English colonies was precisely that France was richer, so there was less to push people to the colonies. So France being richer than Portugal and Spain isn't necessarily an advantage in a colonization scenario.

I do think alternate demographic scenarios are very interesting to explore, so I do hope you take this further.

I wonder what the expense (and eventually profits) of overseas colonies would do to 16th Century France?

fasquardon
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top