That's more open Lara magic but 3DO did have a decent CPU is just the rest did was a little over designed
Dear Pesky Partners... - A Nintendo-Philips Timeline
- Thread starter SubparLario
- Start date
Superb update! I do think "Super Mario vortex" sounds funny, but I'll have to see.
Last edited:
Chapter 21: Welcome To The Next Level: The Sega CD North American Launch (Late 1992 Part 1)
(Yes, I did purposefully time this to be released on a Tuesday, despite getting it done earlier than that. Also, I accidentally sent this before I finished formatting at first, so sorry about that first notification if you watch this thread!)
Welcome To The Next Level: The Sega CD North American Launch (Late 1992 Part 1)
"When you buy the Sega CD peripheral for Sega Genesis, it comes bundled with Sonic the Hedgehog 2 - at no additional cost!"
"Sonic 2 handles stubborn stains, embarrassing bald spots, no problem. It slices, dices, and even makes for a wonderful pizza cutter!" [Footage of someone using the disc to cut a pizza in half is shown.]
"But wait, you can play it too! This free Sonic 2 is a $49.99 value. It's the latest and greatest from Sega, at no additional charge!"
"Sonic 2 fits easily into any tackle box, made from a space age polymer plastic for years of family fun, and pets love it, too!" [There’s a cut to a dog catching the disc in mid air as though it were a Frisbee.]
"Buy any Sega CD peripheral or Sega Play Station combo unit and receive Sonic 2 for free! Act now!"
"Weiner dog sweater sold separately." - a television commercial for Sonic 2, based on an OTL ad.
September 8th, 1992 wasn’t your average Tuesday for gamers; it was Sonic 2sday, the release date for Sonic the Hedgehog 2 in North America and Japan, as well as the Sega CD add-on it was made for in North America. Sega and Sony had a huge marketing blitz for the event, all envisioned by Director of Global Marketing for Sega of America Al Nilsen. Customers received T-shirts as a preorder bonus and white boards counting down the days until the release, while stores were given banners, flyers, and posters to promote the game and peripheral in order to build up hype. In order to make sure all retailers got shipments at the same time, Sega streamlined their product distribution system and made use of air shipping, which was something unusual for the time. This marketing strategy, which was new for the time, would ultimately become the industry standard in the coming years. The Sega CD's North American launch title line-up also includes all the ones from OTL, as well as Columbo Home Detective (which uses an English version of one of the Columbo Mega CD ads from Japan.)
While kids were incredibly excited, not all parents shared that excitement. In fact, a number of them were put off by the fact that they needed expensive new hardware just to play this game. But Sega would rebuff these claims, saying that the Sega CD would pay for itself over time. Compact Discs are cheaper to produce than cartridges, so Sega CD games would be sold at a lower price than base Genesis games, and the money saved on games would almost “pay back” the cost of the peripheral. Plus, it could play music CD’s, making it a cheap option for anyone trying to get one, especially if they or their kid(s) already have a Genesis. So while sales of Sonic 2 alongside the Sega CD aren’t quite as high immediately at launch as in OTL, it does ramp up quickly over time.
(Major props to my friend Cherry and @Nivek for help regarding Sonic 2!)
All About Sonic the Hedgehog 2
Platform: Sega CD
Developer: Sonic Team
Publisher: Sega
Released: September 8th, 1992 (JP/USA); March 16th, 1993 (EU)
Box art for Sonic The Hedgehog 2
Sonic the Hedgehog 2 is the sequel to the Genesis/Mega Drive hit Sonic the Hedgehog, released exclusively for the Sega CD add-on. It has a mix of elements from both OTL’s Sonic 2 and Sonic CD, stemming from the two development teams being combined. The level design leans a bit more towards the exploration of Sonic CD, but it still ramps up the speed of things compared to Sonic 1. A great example of the improved level design compared to Sonic CD is how you access special stages, which works much like time travel in that game (Sonic must pass a special sign and then reach top speed). Higher paths in a level are overall more difficult, but will reward players with spots that potentially automate the process of getting into the UFO special stage. Lower paths, while easier, will require players to put in more effort to reach the special stage. The half-pipe special stage from OTL Sonic 2 is accessed by reaching checkpoints with 25 rings and hopping into the sparkling circle, but it doesn’t reward a chaos emerald anymore. Instead, it’s a bonus stage that gives a different prize depending on how many ring quotas you’re able to meet (like a shield, extra life, or a continue).
Sonic himself has some brand new moves to aid him in his new adventure. The spin dash will let him charge up speed by holding down and mashing jump, curling into a ball and tearing through enemies. There’s also the super peel out, which is done by holding up instead. It lets Sonic accelerate to his top speed faster than the spin dash would, at the cost of being vulnerable to enemies, so there’s a real risk vs. reward element involved with its use. And of course, you can’t forget about Sonic’s new sidekick, Miles “Tails” Prower, a twin-tailed fox who follows alongside him. He can still defeat badniks, collect rings, break monitors, fly, doggy paddle, and even be controlled using a second controller, but the higher specs of the Sega CD means that his AI is a bit more advanced than it was in our timeline, so he’s slightly more helpful here.
In regards to other enhancements the Sega CD allows for, the graphics are a tad more colorful in this timeline. The cut additional frames of animation for Sonic seen in OTL prototypes are properly used here thanks to the additional storage space of CD’s, and other sprites have more animation frames too. Sprite rotation and scaling effects are used frequently as well, just like in Sonic CD. All of the game’s music tracks are in CD quality, composed by Masato Nakamura from the J-pop band Dreams Come True. Therefore, Sega of America didn’t feel the need to replace the soundtrack with songs that better appealed to American audiences like with OTL’s Sonic CD. More zones are featured in the game, and there’s a save select screen similar to the one from Sonic 3 due to the increased length. Although an animated FMV intro cutscene was originally planned for the game, it had to be cut due to time constraints.
TTL's version of Sonic 2 has music that more closely resembles the demo tapes made by Nakamura, which you can listen to in this video.
Sonic 2 picks up right where Sonic 1 left off: after his defeat by Sonic and losing the Chaos Emeralds in the first game, Dr. Eggman decides to set his sights on another method for world domination: the Time Stones would allow him to travel back in time and alter the very course of history. He gets to work searching all over the world for these ancient relics, and also builds a new badnik named "Metal Sonic" who is meant to serve as a counter to his arch-nemesis. Unbeknownst to the doctor, Sonic has been watching him closely, and with his new friend Tails, sets out to stop Eggman. The duo chase Eggman through Emerald Hill, Ocean Wind, Wooden Wonderland, Sand Shower, and Metropolis Zone before Eggman reveals that he's collected all 7 Time Stones, and uses them to travel back in time. Sonic and Tails travel with him, being caught in the radius of the blast of energy that the Time Stones released…[1]
Now that they're in the past, our heroes pass through Tropical Plant (basically Palmtree Panic), Hilltop, Crystal Lake, and finally, Mystic Cave Zone. The world map then shows a large temple rising out of a lake in the middle of the world. This temple is the Hidden Palace, and was the original resting spot of the Chaos Emeralds before they were scattered over time. Act 1 ends with Eggman snatching them up, and combines their power with the Time Stones to radically alter the flow of history. Hidden Palace Act 2 begins with the Palace being flooded, and Sonic and Tails have to make a mad dash out.[2] But not only was the Hidden Palace flooded, the entire world was! It is at this point in the game that the UFO special stages can be accessed, which you get to in a similar manner to how time travel worked in Sonic CD.
After escaping from Hidden Palace, Sonic and Tails are warped to an altered version of the present. Emerald Hill is now a desert called Dust Hill, Ocean Wind is now the dangerous Oil Ocean, Wooden Wonderland has become the snowy Wintry Peaks, and Sand Shower was mined out to become Quartz Quadrant. After those four locations, the heroes arrive in Grand Metropolis, where Eggman reveals that altering the present was only one part of his plan. He uses the Time Stones to bring Sonic and Tails to the future, where Eggman has conquered the entire world...
Dust Hill has been converted into Metallic Madness, Oil Ocean is now the toxic Chemical Plant, Wintry Peaks is the glitzy Casino Night, and Quartz Quadrant has morphed into Wacky Workbench. As for Grand Metropolis, it's been renamed to Robotnik City Zone (Eggman City Zone in Japan.) After Robotnik City Act 2, Eggman flees to his flying fortress, and Tails hijacks a nearby plane to go after him (Sky Chase). Winged Fortress is the final zone of the game, so the Death Egg and Super Sonic actually don’t appear until Sonic 3. The fight with Silver Sonic is replaced with a battle against Metal Sonic.
After defeating Eggman and his Egg-Robo, there are two endings to the game. If the player didn't collect all 7 Time Stones, then Sonic and Tails are returned to the Ruined Present. While the future is bright, the past isn't, and Sonic and Tails have to readjust to their new world. However, if all 7 Time Stones were collected, the Sonic and Tails use their power to revert all of the damage that Eggman caused, and go back to the Original Present. This is the canon ending to the game, and will lead into Sonic the Hedgehog 3.
Amy Rose also makes her debut in this game, following Sonic around like a fan girl, and that's how she ends up in the other time periods (getting caught in the radius of the Time Stone's power.) She shows up in some end of act and end of zone cutscenes, trying to make advances on Sonic. Metal Sonic still kidnaps her at a point in the game, and you save her from him in a race. Although Sonic is annoyed by Amy's romantic advances, he's impressed by her sheer persistence and ability to catch up to him and Tails. When Metal Sonic tries to snag her a second time, she pulls out her Piko Piko Hammer to wallop him instead. She might just be a useful asset to Sonic whenever Eggman comes up with a new scheme…
Sonic 2 is received just as well as it was in OTL, if not better. It takes everything that made Sonic 1 a hit and expanded on it, with bigger levels and faster speeds. It’s a truly great game, and it seems as though Sonic’s popularity isn’t going away any time soon. Due to higher adoption of the Mega CD in Japan, Sonic 2 actually does decently well sales-wise over there, ultimately outselling Sonic 1 in the region. As previously mentioned, while launch day sales aren’t quite as high as they were in OTL, sales quickly ramp up over time as more people purchase the Sega CD.
Footnotes:
[1] Something that should be noted is that after each zone, a world map displaying the location of the player and the current time period is shown as the game loads the next level. In fact, this world map is not too dissimilar to the world map featured in the 8-bit Sonic 1.
[2] It’s a lot like that fire chase scene from the ROM hack Sonic Boom, but with water and it’s nowhere near as difficult.
The next chapter is a bit of a catch-all for some miscellaneous games released in 1992. See you then!
Welcome To The Next Level: The Sega CD North American Launch (Late 1992 Part 1)
"When you buy the Sega CD peripheral for Sega Genesis, it comes bundled with Sonic the Hedgehog 2 - at no additional cost!"
"Sonic 2 handles stubborn stains, embarrassing bald spots, no problem. It slices, dices, and even makes for a wonderful pizza cutter!" [Footage of someone using the disc to cut a pizza in half is shown.]
"But wait, you can play it too! This free Sonic 2 is a $49.99 value. It's the latest and greatest from Sega, at no additional charge!"
"Sonic 2 fits easily into any tackle box, made from a space age polymer plastic for years of family fun, and pets love it, too!" [There’s a cut to a dog catching the disc in mid air as though it were a Frisbee.]
"Buy any Sega CD peripheral or Sega Play Station combo unit and receive Sonic 2 for free! Act now!"
"Weiner dog sweater sold separately." - a television commercial for Sonic 2, based on an OTL ad.
September 8th, 1992 wasn’t your average Tuesday for gamers; it was Sonic 2sday, the release date for Sonic the Hedgehog 2 in North America and Japan, as well as the Sega CD add-on it was made for in North America. Sega and Sony had a huge marketing blitz for the event, all envisioned by Director of Global Marketing for Sega of America Al Nilsen. Customers received T-shirts as a preorder bonus and white boards counting down the days until the release, while stores were given banners, flyers, and posters to promote the game and peripheral in order to build up hype. In order to make sure all retailers got shipments at the same time, Sega streamlined their product distribution system and made use of air shipping, which was something unusual for the time. This marketing strategy, which was new for the time, would ultimately become the industry standard in the coming years. The Sega CD's North American launch title line-up also includes all the ones from OTL, as well as Columbo Home Detective (which uses an English version of one of the Columbo Mega CD ads from Japan.)
While kids were incredibly excited, not all parents shared that excitement. In fact, a number of them were put off by the fact that they needed expensive new hardware just to play this game. But Sega would rebuff these claims, saying that the Sega CD would pay for itself over time. Compact Discs are cheaper to produce than cartridges, so Sega CD games would be sold at a lower price than base Genesis games, and the money saved on games would almost “pay back” the cost of the peripheral. Plus, it could play music CD’s, making it a cheap option for anyone trying to get one, especially if they or their kid(s) already have a Genesis. So while sales of Sonic 2 alongside the Sega CD aren’t quite as high immediately at launch as in OTL, it does ramp up quickly over time.
(Major props to my friend Cherry and @Nivek for help regarding Sonic 2!)
All About Sonic the Hedgehog 2
Platform: Sega CD
Developer: Sonic Team
Publisher: Sega
Released: September 8th, 1992 (JP/USA); March 16th, 1993 (EU)
Box art for Sonic The Hedgehog 2
Sonic the Hedgehog 2 is the sequel to the Genesis/Mega Drive hit Sonic the Hedgehog, released exclusively for the Sega CD add-on. It has a mix of elements from both OTL’s Sonic 2 and Sonic CD, stemming from the two development teams being combined. The level design leans a bit more towards the exploration of Sonic CD, but it still ramps up the speed of things compared to Sonic 1. A great example of the improved level design compared to Sonic CD is how you access special stages, which works much like time travel in that game (Sonic must pass a special sign and then reach top speed). Higher paths in a level are overall more difficult, but will reward players with spots that potentially automate the process of getting into the UFO special stage. Lower paths, while easier, will require players to put in more effort to reach the special stage. The half-pipe special stage from OTL Sonic 2 is accessed by reaching checkpoints with 25 rings and hopping into the sparkling circle, but it doesn’t reward a chaos emerald anymore. Instead, it’s a bonus stage that gives a different prize depending on how many ring quotas you’re able to meet (like a shield, extra life, or a continue).
Sonic himself has some brand new moves to aid him in his new adventure. The spin dash will let him charge up speed by holding down and mashing jump, curling into a ball and tearing through enemies. There’s also the super peel out, which is done by holding up instead. It lets Sonic accelerate to his top speed faster than the spin dash would, at the cost of being vulnerable to enemies, so there’s a real risk vs. reward element involved with its use. And of course, you can’t forget about Sonic’s new sidekick, Miles “Tails” Prower, a twin-tailed fox who follows alongside him. He can still defeat badniks, collect rings, break monitors, fly, doggy paddle, and even be controlled using a second controller, but the higher specs of the Sega CD means that his AI is a bit more advanced than it was in our timeline, so he’s slightly more helpful here.
In regards to other enhancements the Sega CD allows for, the graphics are a tad more colorful in this timeline. The cut additional frames of animation for Sonic seen in OTL prototypes are properly used here thanks to the additional storage space of CD’s, and other sprites have more animation frames too. Sprite rotation and scaling effects are used frequently as well, just like in Sonic CD. All of the game’s music tracks are in CD quality, composed by Masato Nakamura from the J-pop band Dreams Come True. Therefore, Sega of America didn’t feel the need to replace the soundtrack with songs that better appealed to American audiences like with OTL’s Sonic CD. More zones are featured in the game, and there’s a save select screen similar to the one from Sonic 3 due to the increased length. Although an animated FMV intro cutscene was originally planned for the game, it had to be cut due to time constraints.
Sonic 2 picks up right where Sonic 1 left off: after his defeat by Sonic and losing the Chaos Emeralds in the first game, Dr. Eggman decides to set his sights on another method for world domination: the Time Stones would allow him to travel back in time and alter the very course of history. He gets to work searching all over the world for these ancient relics, and also builds a new badnik named "Metal Sonic" who is meant to serve as a counter to his arch-nemesis. Unbeknownst to the doctor, Sonic has been watching him closely, and with his new friend Tails, sets out to stop Eggman. The duo chase Eggman through Emerald Hill, Ocean Wind, Wooden Wonderland, Sand Shower, and Metropolis Zone before Eggman reveals that he's collected all 7 Time Stones, and uses them to travel back in time. Sonic and Tails travel with him, being caught in the radius of the blast of energy that the Time Stones released…[1]
Now that they're in the past, our heroes pass through Tropical Plant (basically Palmtree Panic), Hilltop, Crystal Lake, and finally, Mystic Cave Zone. The world map then shows a large temple rising out of a lake in the middle of the world. This temple is the Hidden Palace, and was the original resting spot of the Chaos Emeralds before they were scattered over time. Act 1 ends with Eggman snatching them up, and combines their power with the Time Stones to radically alter the flow of history. Hidden Palace Act 2 begins with the Palace being flooded, and Sonic and Tails have to make a mad dash out.[2] But not only was the Hidden Palace flooded, the entire world was! It is at this point in the game that the UFO special stages can be accessed, which you get to in a similar manner to how time travel worked in Sonic CD.
After escaping from Hidden Palace, Sonic and Tails are warped to an altered version of the present. Emerald Hill is now a desert called Dust Hill, Ocean Wind is now the dangerous Oil Ocean, Wooden Wonderland has become the snowy Wintry Peaks, and Sand Shower was mined out to become Quartz Quadrant. After those four locations, the heroes arrive in Grand Metropolis, where Eggman reveals that altering the present was only one part of his plan. He uses the Time Stones to bring Sonic and Tails to the future, where Eggman has conquered the entire world...
Dust Hill has been converted into Metallic Madness, Oil Ocean is now the toxic Chemical Plant, Wintry Peaks is the glitzy Casino Night, and Quartz Quadrant has morphed into Wacky Workbench. As for Grand Metropolis, it's been renamed to Robotnik City Zone (Eggman City Zone in Japan.) After Robotnik City Act 2, Eggman flees to his flying fortress, and Tails hijacks a nearby plane to go after him (Sky Chase). Winged Fortress is the final zone of the game, so the Death Egg and Super Sonic actually don’t appear until Sonic 3. The fight with Silver Sonic is replaced with a battle against Metal Sonic.
After defeating Eggman and his Egg-Robo, there are two endings to the game. If the player didn't collect all 7 Time Stones, then Sonic and Tails are returned to the Ruined Present. While the future is bright, the past isn't, and Sonic and Tails have to readjust to their new world. However, if all 7 Time Stones were collected, the Sonic and Tails use their power to revert all of the damage that Eggman caused, and go back to the Original Present. This is the canon ending to the game, and will lead into Sonic the Hedgehog 3.
Amy Rose also makes her debut in this game, following Sonic around like a fan girl, and that's how she ends up in the other time periods (getting caught in the radius of the Time Stone's power.) She shows up in some end of act and end of zone cutscenes, trying to make advances on Sonic. Metal Sonic still kidnaps her at a point in the game, and you save her from him in a race. Although Sonic is annoyed by Amy's romantic advances, he's impressed by her sheer persistence and ability to catch up to him and Tails. When Metal Sonic tries to snag her a second time, she pulls out her Piko Piko Hammer to wallop him instead. She might just be a useful asset to Sonic whenever Eggman comes up with a new scheme…
Sonic 2 is received just as well as it was in OTL, if not better. It takes everything that made Sonic 1 a hit and expanded on it, with bigger levels and faster speeds. It’s a truly great game, and it seems as though Sonic’s popularity isn’t going away any time soon. Due to higher adoption of the Mega CD in Japan, Sonic 2 actually does decently well sales-wise over there, ultimately outselling Sonic 1 in the region. As previously mentioned, while launch day sales aren’t quite as high as they were in OTL, sales quickly ramp up over time as more people purchase the Sega CD.
Footnotes:
[1] Something that should be noted is that after each zone, a world map displaying the location of the player and the current time period is shown as the game loads the next level. In fact, this world map is not too dissimilar to the world map featured in the 8-bit Sonic 1.
[2] It’s a lot like that fire chase scene from the ROM hack Sonic Boom, but with water and it’s nowhere near as difficult.
The next chapter is a bit of a catch-all for some miscellaneous games released in 1992. See you then!
Jejejeje a little detail people forget,at least here would feel better than those got otl Sega CD or 32x...
Amazing update buddy...sonic team might be full on coffee to make sonic 3 even better
It's odd, since often times it isn't kids who buy game consoles, but their parents buying it for them. And when they do buy consoles themselves, it's typically only older kids who have saved up enough money from their allowance or birthday cards, and even then your parents might say no anyway.Jejejeje a little detail people forget,at least here would feel better than those got otl Sega CD or 32x...
Amazing update buddy...sonic team might be full on coffee to make sonic 3 even better
Thank you! Cherry had informed me that during the development of Sonic 2, they had actually planned for there to be time travel, and you'd visit the present, the past, an altered past, an altered present, and the future over the course of the game's story. There's even concept art of the different eras, like this image!
I ended up taking this concept and filling in the plot details, while also pulling elements from Sonic CD (the Time Stones, Metal Sonic, Amy, etc.) This update really wouldn't have been possible without her (and Nivek for giving some feedback on our ideas). If I'm the guy with a truckload of random obscure Mario knowledge, she's definitely a certified Sonic guru! Cherry doesn't have an account on this site, but she did give me permission to link her Twitter account in the update post if you'd like to support her.
Regardless consumers got burned and Saturn botched release also killed any remaining goodwill, regardless here at least it looks the add on is worth it
May I ask what happens to the Game Gear version of Sonic 2 ITTL? Does the original game being larger in scope than IOTL thanks to the power of the Sega Mega-CD mean that the GG version is instead scrapped and reworked into a entirely new Sonic game for the portable system?
Those were secondary games , meaning Sega might just tell aspect to do a sequel to the previous sms/GG game
Unlike 8-bit Sonic 1, which actually took a number of zones and the plot of 16-bit Sonic 1, OTL's 8-bit Sonic 2 was doing more of its own thing compared to the Genesis game. They're only related nominally. So I don't think 8-bit Sonic 2 is any different in TTL compared to OTL, aside from slight butterflies. It was also developed by a different group of people than 8-bit Sonic 1.
Yeah those were filler games,even ancient was surprised when Sega passes on them just to keep cost low
I like that one, I wonder who makes the Game Gear Sonic 2 ITTL.
OK, me replying here is long overdue. (I really did mean to join the thread properly sooner. I'd already started drafting a reply before…, but then my laptop decided a good time to crash was right in the middle of me doing that, which was…mildly/non-trivially demoralizing. Lesson learned by way of a refresher course drilling it into my head yet again; I'm keeping long posts' and replies' drafts synced manually in text files as local backups now. I've only just come back to collecting my thoughts again recently.) Apologies, this is another of my (infamous? — have they gained that status yet, ha-ha? 🤷♂️) long, sprawling multi-replies.
Aside: I'd almost ask why an analogue to our timeline's SA-1 enhancement chip couldn't just exist early, but that may well be too much of a challenge for anyone to make happen in any thread. I can't find any information on who worked on the SA-1's design online anywhere so far.
(I think an SNES with NES backwards compatibility, either built-in or through a small add-on that plugs into the SNES's cartridge slot — like the Sega Genesis's Power Base Adapter, which gave the console Master System backwards compatibility —, could be interesting, and that was even before I learned and knew about the canceled Famicom Adapter; see below. That's certainly outside the scope of this thread, though.)
(You've poked at this a little already; I'll leave specific comments in reply to those instances as appropriate later on.)
(…Not that I don't want to take a stab at it myself over in my timeline, of course. It's just that making an online service have a user base of notable size this early on is kind of a tricky problem to wrangle. I'm interested in seeing your thoughts in this area; maybe they'll help me figure my direction out some, too.)
LAN capabilities are always fun to see, though.
I'm definitely also a fan of Jim Henson living longer in this timeline.
(I'd enjoy seeing it happen, but that's just me.Even running on bare metal without an OS underneath*, sSharing a processor architecture helps, I'm sure.)
* Oh, wait, that's right, the SNES-CD does have a full-blown OS!
Now that I recall, this is also the OS that the Philips CD-i ran in our timeline, hence its appearance here.
So that level lead-in text got replaced for more well-known notable dates, too.
I won't ask for any sources for or links to the Zelda CD-i fan remasters, but are there any good let's-plays of them out there that you could recommend?
It's great to see some titles that were Japan-exclusive in our timeline get localized in this thread's timeline, too!
No, I'm obviously just kidding. Well played.
(Also, thanks for reminding me of your list of potential SNES-CD combo units you posted over in my timeline. Makes a note to come back to that again later.)
Bringing these back to quote/reiterate goes without saying, though:
(Also, its target audience notwithstanding, it doesn't appear that the game Battle High School has any documentation online anywhere, so it's impossible to tell what plot elements it has.)
I wonder what consequences her journey will have? Maybe they'll affect overall series lore more, but I guess we'll see.
(…I also wonder if anybody's going to be inspired by the Memory Pak and/or the Nintendo Power cartridge to do what would be the crazily brilliant act of making an SNES cartridge with a hard drive bay in it.)
that's neat.
Anyway, that's kind of funny. Ah, game development…
I'm also open to joining the PM thread, if you'll invite me. I might lurk, mostly, but maybe I'll think of something interesting; we'll see.
- Some of these responses are in order, or at least roughly so;
- some other responses start out in order but then immediately continue on with further responses to later posts about the same topic or in the same thread of conversation; and
- some other further responses just come up when I've thought of them and aren't exactly in order.
Huh. Somehow, I kind of didn't expect as significant of a difference from our timeline in the form of a CPU change in console hardware that early on in the thread even though the part was available at the time. I'd wonder how the change in the SNES's bill of materials might affect its price. Later on in the thread, you give the same US launch price (of $199) for the SNES as it has in our timeline, though, so maybe this isn't anything to worry about?
Aside: I'd almost ask why an analogue to our timeline's SA-1 enhancement chip couldn't just exist early, but that may well be too much of a challenge for anyone to make happen in any thread. I can't find any information on who worked on the SA-1's design online anywhere so far.
OK, that's a very fair consideration which didn't come to mind for me at first, at least not entirely.
(I think an SNES with NES backwards compatibility, either built-in or through a small add-on that plugs into the SNES's cartridge slot — like the Sega Genesis's Power Base Adapter, which gave the console Master System backwards compatibility —, could be interesting, and that was even before I learned and knew about the canceled Famicom Adapter; see below. That's certainly outside the scope of this thread, though.)
Nice!
I look forward to seeing what you do in the networking/Internet area in this timeline.
(You've poked at this a little already; I'll leave specific comments in reply to those instances as appropriate later on.)
Interesting little bit of history here. I wasn't aware of it before.
We'll see how you end up making this work in this thread and how that ends up playing out with '90s modems, dial-up or otherwise, then, I guess; your take on this should be interesting.
(…Not that I don't want to take a stab at it myself over in my timeline, of course. It's just that making an online service have a user base of notable size this early on is kind of a tricky problem to wrangle. I'm interested in seeing your thoughts in this area; maybe they'll help me figure my direction out some, too.)
LAN capabilities are always fun to see, though.
I don't see much proof of this online, but it could potentially have had interesting implications in the (alternate) gaming history space if Radosh had worked on more titles, given the trajectory of his career with respect to where he's worked. Did you just get this from his interview with Game Informer and other sites' coverage of that, or did you have one or more other sources?
It's always great to see timelines where this is alleviated, more Japanese titles get localized for Western release earlier on, and more cultural exchange happens earlier, too, and not just limited to gaming.
Butterflying Ape, Inc. having to shut its doors, then Creatures, Inc. forming soon afterward only to get stuck mostly as a support studio and working on 3-D and CG modeling for the Pokémon games? Let's see what Ape's staff can come up with!
Nods. I'd added that title to my WIP SNES/SNES-CD game list for Minus World: New Game Plus already:
I'm right there with you! Fills in and crosses out all the squares.
I'm definitely also a fan of Jim Henson living longer in this timeline.
Variety is good. Let's wait and see what you have in mind.
I like it when more game preservation happens, too, both in timelines and in real life, plus prototypes can have all sorts of goodies to mine for in them.
I approve!
Ooh, that should be fun once you get to it!
Good, getting the friction between Sega Japan and America reduced and ironed out should help. It's also good that the goof Ken Kutaragi made was behind closed doors and had a positive effect.
That seemed like a safe assumption to make to me; Nintendo and Philips definitely wouldn't want one of their early showcase SNES-CD titles to be a poor gameplay experience.
Hmm, I wonder how frequently Nintendo hardware will see releases of ports of Mac games, at least from the Classic Mac OS era. Will this affect any of their creators' profits any? If so, by how much?
Still, it sets precedent. Whether it starts any kind of trend, or for how long, is something that we'll have to wait and see.
(I'd enjoy seeing it happen, but that's just me.
* Oh, wait, that's right, the SNES-CD does have a full-blown OS!
Now that I recall, this is also the OS that the Philips CD-i ran in our timeline, hence its appearance here.
Nice to see that confirmed. As was mentioned to bring it up for discussion here in this thread before, Gradius in particular had performance issues on our timeline's SNES, as I recall/IIRC.
Good; this is an obvious opportunity I naturally didn't think you'd miss taking full advantage of.
Oh, nice! That managed to fly under my radar as something that (could've) existed, somehow.
Yeah, this game really does work better as a stand-alone title. Being made as an original work is probably the best outcome one could hope for with it if it still exists in a timeline instead of getting butterflied away entirely, as long as the few issues with its gameplay are patched up and it's given a lot more variety in its puzzle layouts and gimmicks.
This fits better as a Philips title to me. We're already seeing the benefit of Philips being a publisher on Nintendo's current (and future) platform(s).
…Now that you bring it up again, that's still an apt comparison. (You've mentioned this before at least the one time elsewhere, as I remember.)Talk About the door door sequel we never got OTL, that must be a great start for phillips, to see what videogames are about(and enix wondering why they never remade Door Door,
…That TV Tropes's YMMV ('Your Mileage May Vary) page for the game has the following to say about said gameplay certainly says something, I guess:
Ooh, oof, yuck. Yeah, now that's a death sentence for a video game console, right there.
It doesn't look like there was too high of a budget for them. That the game has a whole separate TV Tropes Memes page speaks for itself.
…Hmm. (This is by no means an endorsement of our timeline's Hotel Mario from me, but:) I wonder if a few pieces of this content, namely those that don't need much adaptation out of their context from our timeline, could re-appear in original scenes/episodes for the Super Mario Bros. Super Show in this timeline and/or other 'successful Nintendo-Philips SNES-CD' timeline threads? Of the lines from the game, the following could possibly still fit the best without many changes:
If he ever encounters enemies perched in the sky on clouds he has to use as platforms:
If he finds something that he, and potentially also Mario, has/have been looking for:
This could work in a more generic context if changed to something like, "I hope there's lotsa spaghetti!"Luigi said:
A line like this, or perhaps even this line verbatim, likely already saw use in the Super Mario Bros. Super Show at least once.Mario said:
This pair of lines could easily see use in any dark area, eve/especially a cave like Larry( Koopa)'s Cave Hotel in Hotel Mario in our timeline, or simply just on a really dark night.
If he ever encounters enemies perched in the sky on clouds he has to use as platforms:
Mario said:
Exhaustedly exasperated Mario said:
If he finds something that he, and potentially also Mario, has/have been looking for:
Luigi said:
- (See above.)
- Bumping gameplay speed up a bit like you say it has been in this timeline; patching up, as I said earlier,
giving it
and making the game less repetitive over all should help. - Hotel Fever being a cartridge game for the base-level SNES instead of a CD game for the add-on does the game a favor in this timeline and helps set expectations for it better. Players are right:
- to expect more expansive games on higher-capacity media, especially when said media is also paired with an increase in overall hardware specs.
- not to want to see an arcade(-style) game on CD-capable hardware from what's supposed to be a high-profile publisher.
Huh; neat, another interesting piece of historical trivia that I didn't know. The last part is cute! You were likely also aware of this already as well, but I'll add it for minor additional context for others; TV Tropes notes:
So that level lead-in text got replaced for more well-known notable dates, too.
It's a unique and interesting perspective and approach, for sure, and not one that many consider. I suspect (but can't prove) that most 'successful Nintendo-Philips SNES-CD' timelines, attempts at making them, and/or discussions of potential scenarios for them simply butterfly all of Zelda (and Mario) CD-i games away.
I won't ask for any sources for or links to the Zelda CD-i fan remasters, but are there any good let's-plays of them out there that you could recommend?
The trailer footage looks interesting, but I'm reserving my judgement on this game for now. Maybe we'll see a demo get released for it at some point?
Again, a unique perspective and approach. Similarly to the above, I also suspect that most 'successful Nintendo-Philips SNES-CD' timelines simply butterfly the CD-i format and platform away entirely.
This addition is a nice touch.
More RPGs coming West since they're more popular? Yes, please!
It's great to see some titles that were Japan-exclusive in our timeline get localized in this thread's timeline, too!
Wider variety in localizations is great to have.
(In mock consternation:) Why, you sneaky, cheeky little upstart…
No, I'm obviously just kidding. Well played.
(Also, thanks for reminding me of your list of potential SNES-CD combo units you posted over in my timeline. Makes a note to come back to that again later.)
Feel free to borrow any of my ideas from that if you like any of them and feel like they'd work out here, too, by the way. Things are still very slow-moving over there in that thread, but I'm certainly open to more cross-pollination with and inspiration from other gaming AH threads, including specifically 'successful Nintendo-Philips SNES-CD' ones, while still taking my own distinct approach, going forward.
Bringing these back to quote/reiterate goes without saying, though:
Exactly!
Those'll be cool; looking forward to them.
NEC's ID on its page on MobyGames is 5722, but there's a separate MobyGames page for an 'NIC' here, and that company has its own separate on-site ID of 14807, so they must be two distinct companies, albeit easily confusable. I couldn't find any more information than that, however.
(Also, its target audience notwithstanding, it doesn't appear that the game Battle High School has any documentation online anywhere, so it's impossible to tell what plot elements it has.)
I take it that none of these games are too different from how they were in our timeline and that that's why you didn't see a need to describe them?
…I'm honestly dumbfounded that this game got made by a prominent developer and publisher at all, let alone published anywhere — and by Nintendo, of all companies.
This is a definite win for this timeline.
Agreed! The approach is unique to this thread, at least so far.
Taking the 'eighth heroine' approach here, I see.
I enjoy doing this in The Minish Cap; nice backport.
This is a nice small quality-of-life improvement for that side event; that clearing can be easy to forget to go back to.
- It's interesting that, even though no analogue to Zelda's Adventure exists in this timeline, it still gets a(n) (unrecognized/phantom/orphaned) nod in the title for Zelda's Quest here. It's a cute little development gag out-of-universe!
- You'll obviously saving the finer details about this title for when this thread reaches (the right point in) 1994, but I'll look forward to seeing them then.
Early playable Zelda? Very nice! We haven't even gotten to experience that properly yet IRL., as is common knowledge
I wonder what consequences her journey will have? Maybe they'll affect overall series lore more, but I guess we'll see.
This is something else to wait and see about, then.
I'd say so!
Yay!
Awww.
Score!
This change to the title gives a different sort of nuance in character to it, but that likely helps marketing and sales overseas.
This is a bold move.
I was wondering how this would get handled. Did you come up with this independently before or borrow it from me? Either way, this is good.
That you repurpose the base SNES unit's cartridge slot instead of freeing it up entirely for this thread is interesting. No CD expansions to cartridge-based games here, then; I'll still be the first to use that idea, as far as I know right now. Thinking about it further, though, this makes it so this timeline's SNES-CD's Memory Pak could potentially serve as an early version of/analogue to/something like:
- The memory packs for the Satellaview's application cartridge, BS-X: Sore wa Namae o Nusumareta Machi no Monogatari (BS-X: The Town Whose Name Was Stolen.)
- The SNES Nintendo Power cartridge.
- A combination of both, maybe?
(…I also wonder if anybody's going to be inspired by the Memory Pak and/or the Nintendo Power cartridge to do what would be the crazily brilliant act of making an SNES cartridge with a hard drive bay in it.)
This is a neat idea; I like it.
Oh, I hadn't researched the details of the format in detail (just yet
that's neat. - That's one way to protect against piracy. Not very future-proof, though.
- Why couldn't someone just 'dd' a CD-i's raw blocks across to a new disc image, then burn that?
I await details.
Nods. Not unexpected.
Yeah, a non-trivial subset of the consumer base would wait until the SNES-CD got enough original games of its own to make buying the add-on an enticing and viable market proposition for them. It's mildly unfortunate, but that's how adoption rates can and often do go for consoles whose software catalog overlaps with another. (This is usually with respect to a platform holder's own previous-generation hardware, but this is an instance where the overlap is cross-platform.)
That's this glitch, right?
Anyway, that's kind of funny. Ah, game development…
I'm also open to joining the PM thread, if you'll invite me. I might lurk, mostly, but maybe I'll think of something interesting; we'll see.
I agree, but maybe it has to do with a game mechanic? We'll learn more when SubparLario has details to share about the game.
🤦♂️🤣
Eh-heh…
Can't wait!
Unironically, OTL Nintendo did consider a MOTO68K at 12.5mhz as theSNES CPU, but something happened and they ended up with a CPU that was the evolution of the NES one. here as Phillips already have knowledge working on M68K for their CD devices, became something to use as a bridge for the future add-on.
No major butterflies for SEGA, as they're on a distant third on japan, later on they might get more games thanks to having three CD based consoles.
Wow, that's quite a long reply! I'll do my best to respond parts of it.
However, it does so happen that the glitch you mentioned also results in a softlock in All-Stars, but not in the original. I guess there's something about Bullet Bills which makes them prone to causing glitches...
As Nivek said, Nintendo themselves experimented with using a 68k in OTL, it's just that Philips's past experience with the architecture and using it as a bridge for the CD add-on that pushes Nintendo fully towards it.
Yeah, it's definitely something I need to be careful with. I've only ever known a world where the internet exists, so I need to set my mind backwards and really understand what it was like back then.
I got it from this interview with Radosh on gamesreviews.com.
I see you've caught on to what I was implying!
Absolutely agree with you on that!
I've developed the idea a little more in my spare time. It'll probably end up being a milestone post (like, as a celebration of 1000 posts or something.)
To be fair, there weren't that many games exclusive to Classic MacOS as far as I'm aware. Even if a game started out as a Mac title, it would usually get released on other computer platforms later. Though I imagine the port job wouldn't be too difficult, as this is still the Motorola 68k era of the Macintosh (PowerPC isn't until 1994.)
With Wacky Worlds, we at least have that prototype to work with, but there isn't even footage or screenshots of Mario Takes America. All we know is a vague idea of what it was going to be about and play like. If you want something really obscure, there's also the CD-i Donkey Kong game. Literally all we know about it is that 1. it was in dvelopment at one point and 2. one guy who worked on the game. That's it.
Vinesauce Vinny has stream highlights of both games on his main channel, and the uncut streams on the Fullsauce channel. I believe Projared has also played both of them on his Projared Plays! side channel. As for your other point...
I think it is unwise to completely toss aside the CD-i games (and especially the format with its audio-video interleaving) without recognizing that there are legitimate redeeming qualities to them. The developers wanted to make good games, but unfortunately, they were limited by the system they were on. So, had they been able to make games for a system that wasn't crap, I think they could've up with something really special.
T'was something actually planned for A Link to the Past in OTL, but had to be cut for whatever reason. I assume The Minish Cap may have been Nintendo/Capcom finally bringing the idea back after all these years.
That was actually the intention! Since Zelda's Adventure is a top-down game, it is naturally butterflied by the existence of TTL's A Link Between Worlds, so I wanted to at least reference it in a small way.
It'll definitely play into the story of A Link Between Worlds, yeah. And I'm sure it would affect Sheik in some way.
To be fair, if you saw the name "Romancing SaGa" for a game and had no knowledge of the franchise, you might expect it to be a weird dating sim or something. Hence why I decided to alter the name for its Western release.
It's something that I kinda have to do, considering the exact circumstances that led to Martinet getting the job. Don't get me wrong, though; I absolutely LOVE his voicework as Mario. I was just as sad as everyone else when he announced he was stepping down from the role last year.
Guilty as charged! It was something that I decided to borrow from you, though I added onto it with the Memory Pak implementation I came up with. Speaking of...
I could see a Memory Pak with an SD card slot being made in the present day to allow for easy file transfers to and from your PC, as well as for homebrew (likely using some sort of exploit to read data from the while still having access to the additional hardware in the add-on). Kinda like the SD Gecko memory card for the GameCube, I guess.
I believe the drive itself has to actually be made to read CD-i discs in the first place for it to work at all. The guy who found that prototype of Hotel Mario said that the disc popped up in his computer as a blank CD-R, which meant he had to get someone else to dump it for him with the proper hardware. I'm not certain on this, but I assume it's probably like how Wii/GameCube games are ripped - using homebrew on a real Wii, a program reads the data on a disc and then spits it back out as an ISO file onto a hard drive/flash drive/SD card.
Actually, I was referring to one of the setups for what Mario Wiki calls the "Frozen Flag Glitch" but speedrunners usually just call it "flagpole glitch" or in 8-2's case, "Bullet Bill glitch." The timer only starts getting converted to score once Mario reaches the ground, so a precise jump lets Mario slightly clip into the hard block at the bottom of the flagpole and be on the ground immediately. It saves 17 frames compared to grabbing the flag normally. Doing it in All-Stars results in... well, this.
However, it does so happen that the glitch you mentioned also results in a softlock in All-Stars, but not in the original. I guess there's something about Bullet Bills which makes them prone to causing glitches...
This was for ideas relating to Mario, right? Yeah, I can add you to the PM.
Glad to hear! Apologies for taking so long with this one. Part of it is procrastination, but I also had something very interesting pop up and focused on that a bit more. As compensation, I'd like to list what games will be covered in it:
- Super Mario Kart
- Mario Paint
- Street Fighter II (SNES Port, specifically)
- Romancing/Mystic SaGa
- Video Speedway
Calling it now; ITTL's Super Mario Kart will have the Spiny Blue Shell from the very start.
Also, good luck with that thing.
Also, good luck with that thing.