"Axis of Time" Trilogy by John Birmingham
- Thread starter RealityBYTES
- Start date
I see Mr. J answered your question regarding S.M. Stirling, and I thank you, Leo, for the heads up on Birmingham's blog.
RealityBYTES
Just finished Final Impact.
I enjoyed it. The only bad thing I can say about it is the one small mistake in the scene between Halabi and Duffy, where he refers to Willett when he means Halabi. It's a very small mistake and doesn't impact (pardon the pun) on the story at all.
I found all 3 books imaginative, gripping and funny.
Final Impact gives the series a good ending.
I enjoyed it. The only bad thing I can say about it is the one small mistake in the scene between Halabi and Duffy, where he refers to Willett when he means Halabi. It's a very small mistake and doesn't impact (pardon the pun) on the story at all.
I found all 3 books imaginative, gripping and funny.
Final Impact gives the series a good ending.
In what way? Given the number of terrorist attacks the MNF sailors and soldiers allude to, it'd be difficult to not take an extremely hard-line stance against terrorism.
Chris
Banned
'Conservitive' is a term that changed its meaning down through the years. I am a conservitive...by the standards of today. Compared to Hoover, McCathy and others, I am a raging liberal from hell
. Conservitives, back them, railed against 'uppity niggers' and tried to keep things as they were, i.e. black americans held down or segrigated, women in the kitchen, everyone who was vagely suspected of having at one point been within half a mile of a commie thrown out of any place where they could have an impact...Mike, society changes. What we consider appaling would have been standard practice back then. If we went back in time, we would have to face those issues...and we would probably be shocked.
Chris
Admiral Canaris
Banned
'Conservitive' is a term that changed its meaning down through the years. I am a conservitive...by the standards of today. Compared to Hoover, McCathy and others, I am a raging liberal from hell
Mike, society changes. What we consider appaling would have been standard practice back then. If we went back in time, we would have to face those issues...and we would probably be shocked.
Chris
Me, I'll take McCarthy and J Edgar over Taskforce Draka any day.
Admiral Canaris
Banned
They're free not to. But I'm horrified at how the Draka destroyed the '40s culture and disrupted the political climate.
So you're saying that the people of the '40s had no rights to be free of bigotry, racism, sexism and general ignorance while the rest of the world goes to hell?
Thande
Donor
He's saying that it was their choice when and how to be rid of those things - and I doubt the 40s was more 'generally ignorant' than now, anyway. The Draka - and yes, whoever first said it was bang on when he connected the future types with them - are nothing more than imperialists who are sure they know better than the natives (i.e., the temps). They're no better than European colonisers of Africa, and in many ways a whole lot worse.
Chris
Banned
Thande - I hate to disagree with you
, but I think you're wrong here. Most of the time, the people who are on top are the people who don't want chance, whatever it takes to stay on top. Their choice is to keep things the same way for ever, if they can; the people below can scream all they like, as far as they are concerned. We (people of 2008) DO know better than them about certain issues.The Draka comparsion is about as silly as the Bush/Hitler comparision. Many of the people who were given new hope by the future people were those who were on the bottom; the problems came from those who wanted to keep things in the same old way. The future people wanted to improve the world; the Draka wanted to crush, brutalise, and enslave everyone. There's no comparison.
Chris
I just realized what Thande and Admiral Canaris meant by the Draka Comparison. Yes, the MNF want to make the world a better place to live in, but they wouldn't mind crushing and brutalising (in some cases, utterly humilating) all opposition to do so. I don't know about the enslaving part, but it could be a metaphor for 'forcing people to follow their (the 21Cs) ideas' - ideas which are generally good stuff, but the methods used to bring them about aren't.
I would have to re-read the series to be more specific, but from what I recall about three quarters of my sympathies were with the downtimers, and only a little with the uptimers.
I understand the arguments in support of what they're doing, but I find the way they're going about it and the extent they're doing it to be, fundamentally, insane.
Does anyone think America will be better served as a police state (and oh yes, that's what they're turning it into)? Does anyone think that two decades down the line race relations are going to be good? Blacks, magically given freedom without working for it with MLK; whites, forced into it all at once without time to adapt. Does anyone think that uptimer Americans are actually competent at steering America through the (far worse ITTL) ATL equivalents of OTL Civil Rights and related (death of cities, neighbourhoods; destruction of the family; etc…)?
I cannot see a future where the ATL America turns out to be a pretty decent place anytime in the next 30-40 years.
My biggest concern—morality. I don't even know what to argue here, since in many respects the uptimers are right overall (sex equality, for instance), but the downtimers are right on the details.
I understand the arguments in support of what they're doing, but I find the way they're going about it and the extent they're doing it to be, fundamentally, insane.
Does anyone think America will be better served as a police state (and oh yes, that's what they're turning it into)? Does anyone think that two decades down the line race relations are going to be good? Blacks, magically given freedom without working for it with MLK; whites, forced into it all at once without time to adapt. Does anyone think that uptimer Americans are actually competent at steering America through the (far worse ITTL) ATL equivalents of OTL Civil Rights and related (death of cities, neighbourhoods; destruction of the family; etc…)?
I cannot see a future where the ATL America turns out to be a pretty decent place anytime in the next 30-40 years.
My biggest concern—morality. I don't even know what to argue here, since in many respects the uptimers are right overall (sex equality, for instance), but the downtimers are right on the details.
Admiral Canaris
Banned
Thande - I hate to disagree with you
The Draka comparsion is about as silly as the Bush/Hitler comparision. Many of the people who were given new hope by the future people were those who were on the bottom; the problems came from those who wanted to keep things in the same old way. The future people wanted to improve the world; the Draka wanted to crush, brutalise, and enslave everyone. There's no comparison.
Chris
How about Nazis or Commies, of which neither was reactionary? Kriff, they were revolutionary and wanted to dramatically change the world for what they thought the better. These two revolutionary totalitarianisms have quite likely been worse than the sum total of all other authoritarianisms.
"The Slavs/Reactionaries can scream all they like, as far as we are concerned. We (National Socialists/Bolsheviks) DO know better than them about certain issues."
The comparison is silly? Well, lessee... Rampant militarism? Check. Gender equality? Check. Decadence? Check. Wanked tech/troopers? Check. Disgustingly smug supremacism? Check...
The Draka too wanted to improve the world. And sure, you could probably argue a Draka serf in Africa would be better off than the average OTL African Joe, in purely physical terms. But they care naught for freedom, culture or dissenting views. Just like the Kohlhammer-ers, who force their views upon everyone else.
How do you think ordinary people will react to equality forced upon them? Like the Germans did to Weimar democracy would be my guess - as a foreign transplant showed down their throat that they should do their best to vomit up before it killed them.