"Axis of Time" Trilogy by John Birmingham

[RealityBYTES]

Everyone:

I was just wondering what your thoughts are WRT this series of AH novels

Suffice to say, I read all three novels — Weapons of Choice, Designated Targets and Final Impact — in the span of perhaps a little more than a week. Heh. I think that's evidence enough that I was taken in by the AH world Birmingham built!

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Here's what really struck me (in a good way):

1. I really enjoyed how Birmingham dropped hints here and there about how the world of 2021 got to be where it is. It was a grimly fascinating affair.

2. The strong female characters; not only in the military, but among the civilians as well (for example, the journalists Julia Duffy and Rosanna Natoli).

3. How the timeline began to diverge more and more as the story progressed through the novels, to the point where World War II ended in 1944, rather than 1945, and the Soviet Union ended up coming out better in this reality than in ours.

4. Dan Black. Poor bastard. He didn't deserve what happened to him.

5. Rosanna Natoli. Her fate after Japan occupied Hawaii was terrible.

6. Characterization, in general. I really found myself becoming attached to a number of the characters (some of which are mentioned above). When an author succeeds in doing this ... well, s/he's succeeded, period, IMO.

7. The *sly* references to the Lizards from Harry Turtledove and, of course, the Draka from S.M. Stirling (among other things).

8. Hillary Clinton really turned out to be a hard-*ss b*tch of a president, didn't she? Too bad it got her assassinated ...

9. A seemingly powerful China in 2021. They failed to take Taiwan, it seems, but met with success in conquering North Korea? Does anyone else know more about China's successes/failures?

10. Two cities hit with nuclear weapons in the West? One was in France, I know, but where was the other one? And both strikes were directed by jihadis?

Some of the things that left me scratching my head:

1. Are there going to be more stories set in this particular timeline? The ending seemed to be one of those "maybe, maybe not" kind of things, what with the setup for the (generational) standoff against the Soviet Union, the upcoming "civilized" Sanction 5 of Sgt. Arthur Snider and so on, including Hidaka, the former Japanese governor (among other things) of occupied Hawaii.

2. I was surprised by what the Soviet Union was able to pull off with a single stray ship, the Vanguard. Is this supposed to be a testament to the brute power of what a dictatorship can "accomplish" since it's not bound by human norms, such as keeping your workers alive?

3. I was sort of hoping there'd be some way for at least some of the "uptimers" to reconnect, literally, with the 21st century, especially Kolhammer. It's got to be really hard to know that you're literally only an subatomic vibration or so away from your loved one, but never being able to cross that divide to actually be with them again.

So, overall, I was greatly impressed with Birmingham's work. Here's to more AH stories from him in the future (pun intended)!

RealityBYTES

 

[Odin]

I thought it was quite good myself, but didn't like the third book at all.

Hawaii invaded? hmm
No anvil landings? I mean come on
Split Italy and France, with Soviet units reaching there, in 3 or 4 weeks from their invasion launch? Get real, even with para drops.

Apart from that was good, but I felt like I had to suspend reality in the last half of the last book.

 

[RealityBYTES]

Odin:

Speaking of time, I thought that the there should have been a year or so between the first and second novels, instead of mere months (especially considering the *major* changes that appear to have taken place in California).

Also, I was caught flatfooted for a bit by the multi-year leap between the second and third novel — during which time there were major changes to characters (the relationship between Dan Black and Julia Duffy comes immediately to mind).

Still, as you said, the overall impression left by the "Axis of Time" trilogy was good.

RealityBYTES

 

[Adam]

Spoke with Birmo about the Chinese invasion of Taiwan a while back. He told me the PRC won, which was probably why they were 'warned' by the US not to intervene in the Indonesian Crisis (Weapons of Choice, page 210).

 

[Admiral Canaris]

I've only read the first book and excerpts from the second, so I can't comment on the whole series, but one thing is striking: the complete and total hagiographing of the modern, liberal, feminist, affirmative action characters. They're always the best at everything and lord over the contemporaries... when, in fact, they should be handicapped by the loss of all modern appliances they take for granted. (I mean, in this ultra-techno future, how many can even drive a car without anti-spin system and automatic gears, to take one thing?)

And people immediately "see the light" and join them in their quest for equality. They establish cultural hegemony over the poor '40s men before they even notice. People are, at most, intrigued when they should be repulsed (widespread acceptance of gays, profanities, hip-hop music, liberated women et cetera). One would think it should provoke a violent backlash, but no. '40s culture just rolls over and dies.

I haven't felt so sorry for a people since I read Under The Yoke. Taskforce Kohlhammer are Draka, but they conquer by cultural rather than military means. Though their enemies don't have a LaFarge cyber-warrior to help them.

(Now, that I get this agitated is perhaps a sign that the book is well written. I'll probably get the other two just to see how it turns out in the end.)

 

[Thande]

I've only read the first book and excerpts from the second, so I can't comment on the whole series, but one thing is striking: the complete and total hagiographing of the modern, liberal, feminist, affirmative action characters. They're always the best at everything and lord over the contemporaries... when, in fact, they should be handicapped by the loss of all modern appliances they take for granted. (I mean, in this ultra-techno future, how many can even drive a car without anti-spin system and automatic gears, to take one thing?)

And people immediately "see the light" and join them in their quest for equality. They establish cultural hegemony over the poor '40s men before they even notice. People are, at most, intrigued when they should be repulsed (widespread acceptance of gays, profanities, hip-hop music, liberated women et cetera). One would think it should provoke a violent backlash, but no. '40s culture just rolls over and dies.

I haven't felt so sorry for a people since I read Under The Yoke. Taskforce Kohlhammer are Draka, but they conquer by cultural rather than military means. Though their enemies don't have a LaFarge cyber-warrior to help them.

(Now, that I get this agitated is perhaps a sign that the book is well written. I'll probably get the other two just to see how it turns out in the end.)

I'm not sure if he wasn't being ironic or not. I agree in general with your comments, but I think Birmo might have been saying 'if we continue cracking down and becoming extremist in response to the war on terror, we'll end up just as bad as if the Nazis had won' or something. Not that I think that's true, but I certainly don't think he thought he was presenting Kolhammer's people as the good guys.

The part I find implausible is that someone Kolhammer's age goes along with it so readily - if he was born in the 1960s, he should remember a time of freedom. Still, I suppose you could say the same about all the 1940s Germans who remember the Weimar republic...

 

[RealityBYTES]

Spoke with Birmo about the Chinese invasion of Taiwan a while back. He told me the PRC won, which was probably why they were 'warned' by the US not to intervene in the Indonesian Crisis (Weapons of Choice, page 210).

They did win, huh? I was left with the impression that enough of their troop ships had been sunk in the strait that the PRC wasn't able to establish (or hold) a beachhead on Taiwan.

Then again, with the number of cruise missiles the PRC is building up in the provinces nearest Taiwan IRL, they could probably pound the island into submission, if nothing else.

RealityBYTES

 

[RealityBYTES]

I've only read the first book and excerpts from the second, so I can't comment on the whole series, but one thing is striking: the complete and total hagiographing of the modern, liberal, feminist, affirmative action characters. They're always the best at everything and lord over the contemporaries... when, in fact, they should be handicapped by the loss of all modern appliances they take for granted. (I mean, in this ultra-techno future, how many can even drive a car without anti-spin system and automatic gears, to take one thing?)

And people immediately "see the light" and join them in their quest for equality. They establish cultural hegemony over the poor '40s men before they even notice. People are, at most, intrigued when they should be repulsed (widespread acceptance of gays, profanities, hip-hop music, liberated women et cetera). One would think it should provoke a violent backlash, but no. '40s culture just rolls over and dies.

I haven't felt so sorry for a people since I read Under The Yoke. Taskforce Kohlhammer are Draka, but they conquer by cultural rather than military means. Though their enemies don't have a LaFarge cyber-warrior to help them.

(Now, that I get this agitated is perhaps a sign that the book is well written. I'll probably get the other two just to see how it turns out in the end.)

I, too, noticed that to a degree, but it didn't particularly annoy me (must be because I'm from roughly the same era as the uptime folks). I would suggest reading the remainder of the series, though, Admiral Canaris. You might find some things ... interesting (no further details possible w/o spoilers).

RealityBYTES

 

[RealityBYTES]

I'm not sure if he wasn't being ironic or not. I agree in general with your comments, but I think Birmo might have been saying 'if we continue cracking down and becoming extremist in response to the war on terror, we'll end up just as bad as if the Nazis had won' or something. Not that I think that's true, but I certainly don't think he thought he was presenting Kolhammer's people as the good guys.

That's precisely the impression I was left with. If we (as in the Western world and the extremist Islamists) continue down our respective paths, we could very well end up with a world in 2021 that isn't too far off the mark as presented by Birmingham (Birmo?). Heh. I thought Sanction 4 was bad, until I found out there was a Sanction 5 ...

The part I find implausible is that someone Kolhammer's age goes along with it so readily - if he was born in the 1960s, he should remember a time of freedom. Still, I suppose you could say the same about all the 1940s Germans who remember the Weimar republic...

True, plus there's the inevitable "hardening" that comes after battling the Islamic extremists for two decades (a time period in which not only are there more Sept. 11, 2001-type events, but worse ones as well, including the nuking of two Western cities ... Marseilles, France, and ???).

RealityBYTES

 

[zoomar]

I too was struck by the hardness of the uptimers. The scene where What's Her Name shocks Lt JFK by coldly shooting the Chinese survivors gave me goose bumps - and not in the nice way. I'm not sure he was intending this as a cautionary tale about what we might become after 20 year on "war on terror" as much as a general exploration of how cultural attitudes change. One of the strengths of the series is that you found plenty to dislike in both the uptimers and downtimers. I really wish he'd write a 4th novel to deal with the inevitable conflict between the uptimers and downtimers and how it would all work out.

 

[Father Maryland]

I was pretty pissed when mcarthy hoover halsey and so many other great men of the era were killed. Most were conservative so i had a feeling the author was just trying to say all conservatives are evil and the world would be better without them. I fucking hated the reporter she killed her child and black who was a great character. To be honest after the first book i was hoping the US government would kill all of the uptimers off. And the 3rd book sucked. Oh and the scene with the chinese guys being shot just made me hate them more.

 

[Strategos' Risk]

The whole concept about the people from the future being Draka brings up an interesting premise to use as a promising new story that will have a much-praised and successful run of at least three posts before the author gets bored of it and abandons it on the ASB forum.

Are there any prominent AH's that have an advanced society, yet a distinctly conservative-American (read: 1950s) social climate? Worldwar popped to my head, but I'm not sure if they're conservative or not. Well, if there is, perhaps there could be a version of them several decades down the line when they're testing world-hopping technology, and they send a LaForge of their own into the U.S. of Axis of Time, and he (or she, for a twist) realizes he doesn't like what's happening, and so much culture clash ensues.

 

[RealityBYTES]

I too was struck by the hardness of the uptimers. The scene where What's Her Name shocks Lt JFK by coldly shooting the Chinese survivors gave me goose bumps - and not in the nice way. I'm not sure he was intending this as a cautionary tale about what we might become after 20 year on "war on terror" as much as a general exploration of how cultural attitudes change. One of the strengths of the series is that you found plenty to dislike in both the uptimers and downtimers. I really wish he'd write a 4th novel to deal with the inevitable conflict between the uptimers and downtimers and how it would all work out.

Yes! Thank you for reminding me of that scene ... made even more hard-hitting by the fact that the survivors were chanting "USA good!" and "America saved us!" (something like that) when they were mowed down.

Also, it sounds like France razed Algiers after Marseilles was nuked. Yeah ... wow, 2021 sounds like a tough world. I hope it doesn't turn out that bad over the next 13 years or so.

RealityBYTES

 

[Amerigo Vespucci]

I think the thing I was irked at the most in the series (I loved it enough to write a short fanfic when Birmo requested it a year or two back), was how he was constrained by the needs of publishing and keeping the techno-thriller audience interested.

I would've loved to see more societal conflict and social interaction, but the need to keep the techno-thriller crowd interested with lots of pretty explosions forced the plot forward. In addition, the need to wrap up the series in three books forced the one-year gap in the story. I don't know enough about the behind-the-scenes machinations of the story to say anything, but it seemed as if either Birmo was pressuring himself or the publisher was pressuring him to finish the thing up in three books.

I know that shortly after the publishing of the third book he said he was tired of the series, and that might've explained the one-year gap. Regardless of what I saw as problems, it's definitely among the most interesting WWII AHs out there.

 

[RealityBYTES]

I was pretty pissed when mcarthy hoover halsey and so many other great men of the era were killed. Most were conservative so i had a feeling the author was just trying to say all conservatives are evil and the world would be better without them. I fucking hated the reporter she killed her child and black who was a great character. To be honest after the first book i was hoping the US government would kill all of the uptimers off. And the 3rd book sucked. Oh and the scene with the chinese guys being shot just made me hate them more.

I disagree WRT Hoover and McCarthy ... neither man, IMO, was worthy of any great deal of respect. Halsey, OTOH, at least got a good sendoff (apparently fighting like a bull to the very end against the Japanese on Hawaii).

Regarding the reporter, Julia Duffy, hmm ... I can see where you're coming from, definitely. I, too, was appalled by what she did and could never quite figure out why. I ended up viewing her as a real tragic character, one who admits her selfishness — and what it's cost her — at a certain point in "Final Impact."

RealityBYTES

 

[RealityBYTES]

I think the thing I was irked at the most in the series (I loved it enough to write a short fanfic when Birmo requested it a year or two back), was how he was constrained by the needs of publishing and keeping the techno-thriller audience interested.

I would've loved to see more societal conflict and social interaction, but the need to keep the techno-thriller crowd interested with lots of pretty explosions forced the plot forward. In addition, the need to wrap up the series in three books forced the one-year gap in the story. I don't know enough about the behind-the-scenes machinations of the story to say anything, but it seemed as if either Birmo was pressuring himself or the publisher was pressuring him to finish the thing up in three books.

I know that shortly after the publishing of the third book he said he was tired of the series, and that might've explained the one-year gap. Regardless of what I saw as problems, it's definitely among the most interesting WWII AHs out there.

Yeah, that gap between the second and third novels surprised me, too.

When I first cracked open "Final Impact," I thought I'd be reading about the (eventual) liberation of Hawaii, the blossoming romance between Dan and Julia and so on (for at least part of the novel).

Boy, was I wrong. Still, though, it didn't destroy my enjoyment of Birmingham's work ... it just impaired it a wee bit. (That old writer's admonishment that advises against a lot of exposition and more characterization, although I like it 50-50.)

RealityBYTES

 

[Electric Monk]

I was pretty pissed when mcarthy hoover halsey and so many other great men of the era were killed. Most were conservative so i had a feeling the author was just trying to say all conservatives are evil and the world would be better without them.

You realize we're talking about Joe "Everybody's a commie if I say so" McCarthy and J. Edgar "I run intelligence no matter how bad a job I do" Hoover, right?

Don't get me wrong, given the presented candidates the last sixty years I'd vote Republican more often that not (if, of course, I was an American citizen and like eighty) but there are conservatives and then there are nutbars—like McCarthy. Just like there are liberals and their own nutbars.



As to the series itself I got rather bored by the techno thriller aspect (it's been done better) but I could live with it given the rest of the book. Of course as soon as any of the societal stuff appeared I was solidly on the side of the 1940s. It's their society and it seemed a heck of a lot better than 2021 (attitude wise, since I rather like civil rights and social freedom myself). There are things about 1940s America I take issue with, but the kind of change presented in the books is going to make (IMHO) America a pretty bad place to live the next couple decades.

If I was FDR I'd tell them to shape up, or have them thrown in jail—I was seriously pissed at all the stuff the uptimers were doing in the name of "freedom" or whatever (frankly all it reminded me of was every last rationalizing "we know what's best" government ever). Of course the book rather unrealistically presented "oh we like it" attitudes on behalf of the 1940s people to the uptimers.

Like others, I wish we didn't get stuck with the time gap and hope we get a fourth book.

 

[Mr J]

You realize we're talking about Joe "Everybody's a commie if I say so" McCarthy and J. Edgar "I run intelligence no matter how bad a job I do" Hoover, right?

This is mike,o'neal we are talking about.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

My thoughts?

The first book was a decent techno-thriller, the second book was best as it covered more of the societal clashes the first book missed, and the third book was the worst.

Admiral Canaris, I highly recommend you get your hands on a copy of the second book; it answers most of your issues that were brought up in the first book. (Well, except for the manual transmission part. But (a) military personal are taught to drive manuals in case of emergancy, (b) it's not hard to learn one, and (c) transportation hasn't changed as much in the last eighty years as most anything else. The main difference between modern cars and the earliest was the need for a engine crank and bad tires, both of which were largely fixed by WW2.)

The first book is mainly techno-thriller, but they do make a real point (enforced in the second) that the military omnipotence is incredibly temporary. And I do agree that the 21C's are too good in most regards.

Book 2, however, draws on their flaws as well as shows they aren't the newest saints. The Zone is a place where those who can't fit in elsewhere go, and is naturally attractive to minorities and "deviants" who can't get a fair shake. But outside of them, who have incentive to love the 21C, their only real supporters are progressives like Elanor Roosevelt (who could be considered as a women to be a political minority) and those they make rich, such as Slim Jim and the richest. The mainstream wants what 21C has got, without the lessons of the 21C. Which is why book two's first five scenes involves the beating of a Mexican Laborer inside the Zone, and starts showing the outright hostility between the British 21C and the Royal Navy. Book 2 is also where we see 21C personnel shoot Japanese captives by the thousands from behind with pistols, which is said to take days to complete.


Book 3, however, is a throwaway. It killed one of the most important characters (Dan Black, the best 'temp vision) off screen in order to throw Julia's "troubles" into the light, it completely skips the Battle of Hawaii, and sees the Soviet Hordes build from nothing to a super-power in complete secret from a single captured ship. It tosses the plot thread of the Rusian Special Forces soldier instigating a rebellion from the officers in the Soviet camps, and completely trashes the Soviet Union. Stalin goes from mysterious and strong with a secret daughter in book 2 to being batshit insane and hosting drunken, vomit-filled orgies in which his ministers are forced to soil themselves in front of foreign diplomats.

 

[Electric Monk]

This is mike,o'neal we are talking about.

He has a reputation?