An Islamic "On the Origin of Species"

Valdemar II

Banned
Since everyone ignored this, I'll point out that that's a commonly held belief, which is wrong, IIRC. QI said so. I'm not sure if they thought it was a globe, but they definitely did not think it was flat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth

Wiki even agrees.

Christopher Columbus sailing west in order to get to the east years before whatshisname (I've forgotten. Pretty sure it wasn't Galileo) suggested that the world was, indeed, round does rather suggest that it is a fallacy that the flat Earth was a widely held belief.

It was never a common held belief, but there was a lively debate in Europe in the 12th century, where theologians argued the common belief that the Earth was round was superstitious nonsense (they based their argument on the Bible), but the discussion ended with the traditionalist side winning , and the fact that the Earth was round was commonly known among learned men and sailors at Columbus time just as it had been a millenium earlier.
 
What about Ibn Khaldun, who wrote the Muqqaddimah?
The book was mostly about how changes over time influence history (evolutionary history, if you will), but he very almost touched upon biological evolution in one part of his book. With only a minor stretch, you could easily have the theory of evolution in the late 1300s.
 
No I'm saying that because of this rigor they'd question any 'Origin of Species' type thought as there simple won't be the vast amount of interlocking evidence Darwin had.

Ah. Well, it seems unlikely anyone would come up with such an idea for the same reason. Before steam, most scientists aren't going to go traipsing around the world gathering critters.

But if someone did come up with the idea, it is testable using bugs or mice or something. Well, sort of. I guess not really.
 
Well, the "Dark Ages" is a fabrication made by early modern Europe in order to distance themselves from their past, anyways,. :rolleyes: The 'Golden Age' Islamic world (if you will, between the start of the Umayyad dynasty and the sacking of Baghdad by the Mongols) did some quintessential steps in the development of the scientific method. Folks like Al-Biruni and Avicanna, anyone? ;)

That's a common trope around here. The Dark Ages were pretty freakin' Dark compared to the preceding Roman era and the latter Middle Ages. I don't think there's anything :rolleyes: about the use of the term.
 
Ah. Well, it seems unlikely anyone would come up with such an idea for the same reason. Before steam, most scientists aren't going to go traipsing around the world gathering critters.

But if someone did come up with the idea, it is testable using bugs or mice or something. Well, sort of. I guess not really.

Erm... Wasn't HMS Beagle a sailing ship?

Didn't seem to inconvenience Charlie D too much.
 
A recent issue of Discover had a good article on it.
I'm not sure if this was brought up by I posted the article in the political chat thread so it is hanging around SOMEWHERE on that forum.
 
Isn't there something in the Koran about mankind evolving from a clot of blood?
The Qu'ran states that man was created from dust, clay, water, a clot of blood, a drop of blood, nothing, and many other things, but it doesn't say anything about evolution per se, just as the Bible really doesn't say anything about evolution.
 
That's a common trope around here. The Dark Ages were pretty freakin' Dark compared to the preceding Roman era and the latter Middle Ages. I don't think there's anything :rolleyes: about the use of the term.

Well, let me ask you something then: how (that is, from approximately when to when, or what key events, for that matter) would you define "Dark Ages"? Because the original definition included the High Middle Ages (ending with the onset of the Renaissance), which we today normally exclude from the Dark Ages.

Also, the term is not really applicable outside the greater Euro-Mediterranean region, because for example China and Southeast Asia were totally unaffected by these things (there are, however, other local "Dark Ages" in other parts of the world, or different times, notably the Dark Ages following the Bronze Age collapse).
 
Erm... Wasn't HMS Beagle a sailing ship?

Didn't seem to inconvenience Charlie D too much.

Yes but fast sailing ships with sufficient wealth and supplies to traipse around on scientific exploration were an 18th-19th century innovation, as was cutting deep canals and railroad tunnels to reveal all those fossils in stacked layers.

The Islamic golden age didn't have a technological base to present them with the problems Origin explained, much as Einsteins work would have been just hot air in the mid 19th century without the need to explain the results of the Michelson-Morley experiment (and others), which in turn relied on beam-splitter technology not developed till the late 19th century...
 
It was never a common held belief, but there was a lively debate in Europe in the 12th century, where theologians argued the common belief that the Earth was round was superstitious nonsense (they based their argument on the Bible), but the discussion ended with the traditionalist side winning , and the fact that the Earth was round was commonly known among learned men and sailors at Columbus time just as it had been a millenium earlier.

Well, in Dante's divine comedy around 1300 - a theological opus! - it is taken for granted that the reader knows that earth is a ball, and that gravity points to its center.

True, the conviction that only a flat earth is true because consistent with the Bible existed, but it was not a relevant one; not even inside the Church.

The question of the sun orbiting around earth or the other way around was far more important.
But even here, note that Galilei (and others) were not just pursued for stating a disagreeable opinion.
He piqued the vanity of the pope, who was personally interested in his work.
This was his major mistake.

True, several high-positioned clergymen and theologians held the dogmatic position which is today attributed to the Christianity "of the old days" in general.
It seems to me that only Gailei's satirical assault on the pope, and the pope's reply to that have entrenched the Church in its heliocentriphobia.
Otherwise very probably these ideas would have become more and more accepted even inside the Church gradually.
Of course, things could have looked a whole lot different (in both ways) if the conflict would have taken place, say, 50 years before or after ...
 
Imagine if there had been a passage in the Quran which had gone something like this

"And Allah (Peace be upon him) looked upon one of his creating the ape".

"He touched its legs so it could bow before him."

"He touched its head so it would always know his name"

"He touched its throat so it could praise his name"


Imagine that?
 
Imagine if there had been a passage in the Quran which had gone something like this

"And Allah (Peace be upon him) looked upon one of his creating the ape".

"He touched its legs so it could bow before him."

"He touched its head so it would always know his name"

"He touched its throat so it could praise his name"


Imagine that?

Allah doesn't have a name.
 
Well, let me ask you something then: how (that is, from approximately when to when, or what key events, for that matter) would you define "Dark Ages"? Because the original definition included the High Middle Ages (ending with the onset of the Renaissance), which we today normally exclude from the Dark Ages.

Also, the term is not really applicable outside the greater Euro-Mediterranean region, because for example China and Southeast Asia were totally unaffected by these things (there are, however, other local "Dark Ages" in other parts of the world, or different times, notably the Dark Ages following the Bronze Age collapse).

We're not talking about outside the Euro-Mediterranean region, obviously. The Dark Ages is approximately from the fall of the Roman Empire to 1000. All ages vary in the applicability in different parts of Europe - for example, the Baroque began and ended earlier in Italy than in Germany.

It's hard to characterize the period between the Fall and the Carolingian Renaissance as anything but "Dark", at least in comparison to what preceded it.
 
I thought he has 99, starting with the compassionate and ending with the patient, and a hundreth unkown name.

Indeed, but Euroman26 was certainly uninformed enough about Islam to equate God with human being, or for that matter, with anything.
 
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