An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania
- Thread starter Basileus444
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"A simple war into a disunited Germany. Just across the Rhine and back, simple, in and out. No drawn out campaigns, a new secure border and maybe even some buffer states. It isn't like I'll be fighting Romans, or invading the Russias..."
Probably Henri when he came up with the idea for the Rhine border.
Probably Henri when he came up with the idea for the Rhine border.
Vince
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Well D3 managed to get 200k men together for one battle but it was a monumental effort that was in the heartland of the Roman Empire. I can't see Henri getting twice that much assembled at the Rhine, let alone beyond it, in an area that's several hundred km from his powerbase in northern France.
I don't think the implication was that Henri could field 400,000 men in one place, or even would sent that many into Germany at one time. That is just what he could theoretically send if he ignored all political, economic, or other security concerns.
If anything, it just means that the Germans will find that a battle of attrition will not likely go in their favor, assuming the Truines are willing to keep the fight going longer.
If anything, it just means that the Germans will find that a battle of attrition will not likely go in their favor, assuming the Truines are willing to keep the fight going longer.
My understanding is that it’s 10x the Triune contribution to the 40,000 force. So if it’s 50/50 split with Philip then the max Triune capacity should be around 200,000? Still huge but definitely not 400,000.
Yep, it's not 10x the whole force.
I'm not saying Triunes have 400,000 men, just that it's not impossible for the era (happened OTL). I can't find the chapter, but I think that adding up all Triune invasion armies doesn't come close to that number. And that should be near max for force projection into Germany.
When a man points a finger at someone else, he should remember that 3 of his fingers are pointing at himself.
Any overtures from Elizabeth to Queen Regent Alexandre to get Poland to join in the war (not only allowing transit) in return for recognition and future support for Poland's claims?
Interesting parallels to OTL Breitenfeld - first major victory on the anti-Imperial side, but this was far more symbolic than material.
Does that Elizabeth-Leopold side have any great commanders (similiar to Gustavus Adolphus?) that can offset the numerical superiority of the Triunes/Philip? From what I've seen so far Triune commanders are decent but not exceptional.
Does that Elizabeth-Leopold side have any great commanders (similiar to Gustavus Adolphus?) that can offset the numerical superiority of the Triunes/Philip? From what I've seen so far Triune commanders are decent but not exceptional.
The Lands of Germany (and neighbors), 1650
There have been some overtures, but the Poles are wary of committing any more than they already have. The last time they jumped hard into German affairs their king and a good chunk of their army got killed in Macedonia, and then lost a good chunk of territory, and it could have gone even worse.
Not yet, although an upcoming addition will help to fill that niche.
Triune numbers: To clarify things, I've edited the bit in question in the last update. It now reads as: "There were about 15,000 Triune troops on the field that day, but fifteen years earlier three Triune field armies that combined were ten times that size had overrun the Rhineland."
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The Lands of Germany (and Neighbors), 1650:
The Lands of Germany (and Neighbors), 1650:
Henri determines to strike hard against the Eastern Coalition, hoping to knock it down and break it up before it can secure more support. He recognizes that the weakest link in the coalition is King Stephan and so he reinforces his forces in Bavaria, with Philip Sigismund sending units of his own to give the operation an Imperial veneer, with the objective of an offensive into Austria.
Stephen’s weakness is not in material strength, in which he is actually the most powerful member of the coalition (disregarding the Russians if they were to act at their full potential in Germany), but in his links with the other coalition players. Elizabeth, Duke Leopold, and Duke Karl are all Imperial princes whose holdings are entirely within the Holy Roman Empire. They have openly come out against the Emperor and thus if they lose have nowhere to go. Meanwhile Stephan has Austria and Bohemia, which are inside the Holy Roman Empire, but his heart is in Hungary, which is outside.
Stephen’s relations with the other coalition members, particularly with Duke Leopold, are weak. His opinion of the Duke of Saxony is not improved when the Duke’s uncle, Pope Callixtus IV, starts pressuring him regarding the Saxon monastic earnings that Stephan had been granted to gain his support. To him, it feels like he was given a pittance, and now the House of Habsburg is trying to welch him on even that.
Further difficulties come from ruling a composite kingdom, to which Henri II could relate. Stephen is King of Hungary, Croatia, Austria [1], and Bohemia, but the links between the four are personal, not administrative. Stephen has a separate bureaucracy, treasury, and army for each kingdom, which makes anything and everything broad-scaled more complicated.
The Bohemians in particular are proving difficult. Unlike the Croatians and Austrians, who by this stage are used to sharing a monarch with the Magyars, the Bohemians have until recently been a powerful and independent kingdom. They are used to having their own way in their own house. While Stephen has thus far followed his coronation oath in using only Bohemian officials to fill Bohemian offices, and in spending the requisite amount of time in Bohemia, he is a Magyar by birth and inclination. His personal household officials are overwhelmingly Hungarian, Austrian, and Croat, denying openings to Bohemian nobles who are used to having more personal contact with their sovereign.
The Bohemians are the least enthusiastic of Stephen’s realms for his reentering the war against Philip and Henri. Bohemian forces had taken the brunt of the Triune-Imperial assault that wrenched Saxony from Stephen. They are concerned that a new Triune-Imperial assault against Saxony will, if the Bohemians support Leopold, then easily spill over into their lands; they are right next door, even if the mountains offer some protection. The earlier arrangement had spared Bohemia from assault; why jeopardize that?
In contrast, the Austrians, followed by the Hungarians and Croats, are invested in pushing Philip and Henri back. Bavaria, as the most ancestral holding of the House of Wittelsbach, is heavily garrisoned by Imperial and Triune troops. Unlike Bohemia, there isn’t a nice defensive mountain range covering the frontier.
Austrian concerns about the threat next door are amply justified. Fifty thousand Triune and twenty thousand Imperial troops swarm across the frontier, overwhelming the border troops that can’t get away fast enough. Clearly unable to take such a force head-on in the field, Stephen’s forces withdraw to Vienna with the goal of wearing the attackers down in a siege until a proper relief can be mounted.
Stephen is doing his utmost, rallying Croatian and Hungarian units and hiring mercenaries, mostly from Poland but including over a thousand Spanish and Greek recruits each. But the Bohemians are continuing to be a problem, quibbling over sending forces outside the realm for the purposes of defending Austria, not Bohemia. It is likely this argument is not meant seriously, but articulated to force Stephen to make concessions to the Bohemian nobility. The demanded concessions mostly involve the use of Bohemians as household officials while in Bohemia, and restriction on future taxation and levies that are not specifically for the defense and interest of the Bohemian realm. After granting these concessions, the nobility quickly overcome their earlier qualms by rationalizing that if Henri and Philip overcome Austria, they can then attack Bohemia from the south, so aid granted now really is for the defense of Bohemia after all.
Stephen ends up getting what he needs from Bohemia, but with extra time and frustration. Thus, he is not in the best of moods when he gets the response to his simultaneous appeal for aid to his allies. Both Duke Leopold and Karl are frankly quite relieved that the blow fell on Stephen, not on them; both had expected that after the two Electors declared against Philip and Henri, more of Germany would join them.
Stephen wants them to launch an attack of their own into central Germany against Philip, hopefully diverting Imperial-Triune forces from Austria. But the two Dukes are worried about supplying such an offensive which would require ‘contributions’ from the German countryside. They are still hoping for more Imperial princes to join their case, but such contributions would endanger that likelihood.
So, they do launch an attack, but into Pomerania. Leopold’s and Karl’s arguments are that if they restore the Duke of Pomerania to his lands, that will encourage the other Imperial princes to join their cause. Furthermore, if Pomerania enters the coalition, that might encourage the Russians to send more aid. More friendly coastline would make the seaborne transport of more Russian troops more viable, and the Pomeranians have more contacts with the Russians (specifically the Novgorodians) which might make the Russians more generous with their support. These arguments have some merit, but Pomerania is controlled by the Empire of All the North. Philip and Henri thus ignore this offensive, and so Karl’s and Leopold’s actions are completely useless to Stephen in his hour of need.
The defense of Vienna is led by Count Ernst Rüdiger von Starhemburg, who while in the service of the Wittelsbachs had successfully defended Munich against a Hungarian-Roman siege in 1635, the last serious combat operation of the War of the Roman Succession. He is ‘a tough old badger’, to use the words of King Ottokar who had known him. However, the Imperial-Triune army is led by none other than Marshal Vauban; given his expertise in siege-craft and logistics, Henri considered him the best choice for such an operation so far from France.
Still the siege is a tough operation, the Count engaging in counter-battery and counter-mining operations to considerable effect, but the press of the Triune siege operation can only be delayed, not defeated, without the arrival of a relief army. With no reinforcements from his prospective allies, Stephen is unable to assemble such a force. After two large breaches have been smashed through Vienna’s defensive walls, the Count surrenders on August 10th.
Vienna has to pay over a substantial settlement and accept a garrison and quartering of troops, with the typical disturbances to the peace that are involved, but the city is not sacked. That was why the Count had surrendered, in contrast to his actions at Munich where he had threatened to continue fighting in a street battle even if the walls were breached. But there he had been fighting against the Romans, which after their recent massacres at the Field of Knives, Dachau, and Ulm, could not be trusted to honor safe conduct agreements. In contrast, he trusts the word of Vauban that the people of Vienna will not be harmed provided they lay down their arms and follow the terms of the surrender agreement.
The fall of Vienna is a serious blow to Stephen. The Imperial-Triune forces send out raiding parties in strength that harry western Hungary and northern Croatia, although there is no effort to advance and seize more territory. The siege had been victorious but there is the need to resupply and consolidate logistical lines before proceeding.
There is also a question of strategy. There are two options. One is to turn north and strike into Bohemia, which will threaten Saxony and Brandenburg and jeopardize the flow of Russian troops from the east. But that comes with the risk of making the Bohemians, hitherto reluctant war participants, into more eager combatants since now they would be under direct threat. Or it might make them pressure Stephen even more to make peace; it could go either way.
The other is to continue eastward and strike into Hungary, the heart of Stephen’s dominion. If successful there, he will have to make peace. But there is the issue of further extending and straining supply lines. The Imperials and Triunes are having to rely heavily on ‘contributions’ from the countryside, with all the attendant difficulties and ill effects on German public opinion, and such a venture would make this even worse.
Also, any units engaged in such an offensive will be ill placed to respond if Saxon and Brandenburg forces do shift and attack into central Germany. Finally, there is the possibility that an invasion of Hungary might trigger either more Russian aid, or active intervention on the part of the Poles or the Romans. That would greatly complicate things. On the other hand, the possibility of a Roman intervention could scare Stephen into making peace with Henri to forestall such an eventuality.
Henri tries another tack, making offers of peace to Stephen. What his proposal boils down to is that in exchange for a large monetary payment and some annual tributes for a period, all will be forgiven and Austria returned to the King. Stephen is torn. On the one hand, he is thoroughly disgusted with his allies and uninclined to take further damage for their benefit. But on the other, he is concerned about ‘re-adjustments’ after Leopold and Elizabeth are removed from the board.
The Bohemian nobility make the decision for him. They view Henri’s peace offer as quite generous considering the circumstances and demand Stephan accept the offer, lest he forfeit any support from the lands of the Bohemian crown. Stephen can’t continue the war effort without such support and so he has to give way, accepting Henri’s terms.
The Bohemian nobility, sensing their strength, press their advantage. Stephen needs funds to pay the terms of the treaty; Triune garrisons won’t be withdrawn from his Austrian lands until specified payments have been made. The Bohemian Diet offers a generous subsidy to pay for those settlements, but demand concessions. By now Stephen is regretting having gotten involved at all in this debacle and just wants to extricate himself as quickly as possible, and so he concedes here as well. His second son, Vaclav, was born in Prague and named after his Bohemian grandfather. The Bohemian nobility insist that Prince Vaclav be raised in Bohemia by Bohemians, and will inherit the crown of Bohemia upon Stephen’s death. Meanwhile his eldest son Andrew will inherit his father’s other realms. Thus, assuming both Andrew and Vaclav outlive Stephen, the Hungarian-Bohemian union will dissolve upon Stephen’s death.
Both Leopold and Elizabeth condemn the ‘treacherous Magyar’, with some Germans making caustic references to Hungarian behavior around Thessaloniki, but Stephen thunders back, with good reason, that they’d proven to be utterly useless as allies. The Saxons and Brandenburgers have restored Pomerania to Duke Wartislaw X, but that is a small victory compared to Stephen’s withdrawal from the coalition.
[1] When the Hungarians were at the height of their great power status, they forced the elevation of Austria to the level of a Kingdom.
Thus are the downsides of a coalition. Everyone has their own separate agenda which may or may not align.
Things are looking kinda bleak for the Anti-Triunes. They have Elizabeth and her Russians, Bone Breaker's son and his people, and the Pomeranians. Gonna need a lot more to take on the might of the Triunes.
Things are looking kinda bleak for the Anti-Triunes. They have Elizabeth and her Russians, Bone Breaker's son and his people, and the Pomeranians. Gonna need a lot more to take on the might of the Triunes.
Man, the Bohemians of Hungary-Austria are like the Hungarians of Austria-Hungary.
Whoever comes out on top in Germany will be proud rulers of a devastated land. First came the Romans, then the Triunes, the Ravens and the Black Death. Now come The Russians and Triunes to make Germany their playground again. The decreased pop density of Central Northern Germany may have longer lasting effects in the future and serve to perpetuate a East-West-South divide.
I know that Karl is weak physically but wouldn’t it be great if he is somehow become like Augustus and Alfred the great, since both of them isn’t that great physically but make up their lack ofphysical strength with their intellect
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Are the Triunes requisitioning supplies if they're going all the way to Austria? Can't imagine the locals will be happy with Triune troops marching across Germany as they please....
Looks like Vienna is doing quite a bit worse than OTL - over the course of a few decades it's been taken by force 3 times?
Looks like Vienna is doing quite a bit worse than OTL - over the course of a few decades it's been taken by force 3 times?
the country is a junction of the Incas and Aztecs. It's going to be a very different country, even if it's split into 2 in the future. Probably these destructions do not occur, or if they do, they are on a smaller scale.