An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania

[Avrorrange]

Well, that's some serious foreshadowing...I guess Rhomania will be gearing up for some good old dynastic turmoil soon...

Depends on who she's married to really.I hope she's married to the next Andreas Niketas.By all means,if the empress is bright,she should go and marry her granddaughter to someone who is the next Caesar/Basil II--she's been essentially given the chance to pick any man she wanted for the post of the next emperor from outside her own family.

 

[Arrix85]

Beautiful update. I love these updates on culture and economy.

About the War of roman succession (the first WW)although we have known for quite a long time about it, I wonder if you're changing your mind about the romans solidifying their presence in SE Asia. The timing couldn't be worse for a renewed effort in the region after the Great Uprising. Everyone that matters is gonna probably be involved, but I don't see the Portuguese or the Triunes be as damaged by this war as Rhomania (and having the second in the line of succession married to the future HRemperor is a sure fire clusterf*ck).

 

[DDJR]

Oh, well, i guess that in a few months we will see another war of epic proportions .

And knowing that, Andreas threat sounds much more appropriate. It's almost time for another warrior emperor, or it will take a while (in timeline years) for the shit hit the fan?

 

[frustrated progressive]

My two cents: I know this is what we've all been thinking, but WWI will begin when kristina croaks, leaving a german as Basileus. The Romans, naturally, won't accept him, and will revolt. The hre will intervene, and it's enemies will attack it, or claim the Roman throne for themselves.

 

[Basileus444]

Darthfanta: Steam engine has yet to be invented and also the lack of significant (there are some minor) agricultural improvements means that large-scale industrialization and urbanization is not possible. The Empire’s agriculture plus Egyptian and Scythian grain can feed the workers for an impressive amount of urbanization and industrialization for a pre-industrial society but at most the Empire is getting to a proto-industrial stage. The lack of good coal doesn’t help.​

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It’s a good idea but an Andreas Niketas does not come around very often. And Helena the Younger is already married, but no issue yet.​

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Voyager75: Agreed. The real Industrial Revolution is still a long way off.​

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Soverihn: Transportation is difficult, people are reluctant to leave their ancestral lands, Latin rulers aren’t inclined to see their workforce disappear, and after an initial burst after the Time of Troubles the Romans aren’t interested in a large influx of Catholics. Orthodox immigrants aren’t a problem though and a million over the course of seventy years is nothing to laugh at in pre-steamship/railroad days. ​

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Ain: Thank you. ​

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Namayan: The Romans have fewer hulls but the goods stored in them are oftentimes more valuable than those in Triune/Dutch holds, silk and cinnamon versus wool and fish. Also a lot of Roman maritime trade is within the Empire and so not spread out too far. So it makes sense for a ship captain not to invest in a lot of ships because he can make multiple voyages relatively quickly whilst not paying the taxes on hulls or cannons for defense. The Antwerp runs get a lot of attention but for every Roman ship making that run a hundred are plying Alexandria-Constantinople. ​

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HanEmpire: Yes. The Dutch lose any and all relevancy once their fleets disappear. Roman sea-power and trade is very important and highly useful but in the Mediterranean they don’t face any stiff competition unlike the North Sea where there are Dutch, Triunes, Hansa, and Scandinavians all facing off against each other. Also much Roman maritime traffic is solely in the eastern Mediterranean. One doesn’t need a lot of ships if one is just hoping back and forth from Trebizond or Kaffa to Constantinople.​

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ImperatorAlexander: I don’t know how you would get that idea…​

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Arrix85: My original plans for Rhomania in the Far East had everything going far too easily for the Romans. A few spanners in the works makes things both interesting and more realistic.​

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Djacir: Let me just say that some important pivotal figures have yet to make their debuts. ​

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Frustrated progressive: See my response to Djacir.​

 

[Avrorrange]

Darthfanta: Steam engine has yet to be invented and also the lack of significant (there are some minor) agricultural improvements means that large-scale industrialization and urbanization is not possible. The Empire’s agriculture plus Egyptian and Scythian grain can feed the workers for an impressive amount of urbanization and industrialization for a pre-industrial society but at most the Empire is getting to a proto-industrial stage. The lack of good coal doesn’t help.​

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It’s a good idea but an Andreas Niketas does not come around very often. And Helena the Younger is already married, but no issue yet.​

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If she isn't married to a Basil II,at the very least,please tell me she's married to a Hadrian(a competent general and an excellent administrator) or at the very least a Marcus Aurelius(not a general,but an excellent administrator nonetheless). Please don't tell me the senior-empress married her to an utter fool with only a pretty face.

 

[Namayan]

Coal production, doesn't all of the current empire heartland already produce more coal than Britain or even Germany?

Otl Bulgaria area alone should out produced coal over Britain? Or is that restricted present day otl production?

 

[Evilprodigy]

Coal production, doesn't all of the current empire heartland already produce more coal than Britain or even Germany?

Otl Bulgaria area alone should out produced coal over Britain? Or is that restricted present day otl production?

I think we had a discussion about this already in that most coal in the area is deeper than what you can find with current technology. There IS coal that they can exploit but the amount is far far less than what you find in Britain.

Hell German coal is actually pretty hard to get at too. Took a while before they started exploiting it on the same scale as the British were exploiting their own coal.

 

[ImperatorAlexander]

I think I remember B444 mentioning that the Romans would be relative latecomers to the industrialisation process, they'll do it later but do it better with improved technology. If the Romans do have difficulty accessing fossil fuels perhaps they can pioneer other sources of energy production like hydro and wind power?

This is just pure speculation but my money is on the line of Timur to play a massive part in the war to come, maybe even come out on top. B444 did mention that the Sideros line will be significant.

 

[Evilprodigy]

I think I remember B444 mentioning that the Romans would be relative latecomers to the industrialisation process, they'll do it later but do it better with improved technology. If the Romans do have difficulty accessing fossil fuels perhaps they can pioneer other sources of energy production like hydro and wind power?

This is just pure speculation but my money is on the line of Timur to play a massive part in the war to come, maybe even come out on top. B444 did mention that the Sideros line will be significant.

Oil and gas could also play a big roll in Rhomanian industrialization. For starters oil fields in northern Iraq (if they take it), Oil in eastern Syria, Gas in Jordan, oil in friendly nations like the ancient Baku Oil Field and the Romanian one that I forget the name of that the Nazis desperately wanted.

They could also import Ukrainian coal if need be, the coalfields are right there after all along the Don River.

 

[Avrorrange]

Oil and gas could also play a big roll in Rhomanian industrialization. For starters oil fields in northern Iraq (if they take it), Oil in eastern Syria, Gas in Jordan, oil in friendly nations like the ancient Baku Oil Field and the Romanian one that I forget the name of that the Nazis desperately wanted.

They could also import Ukrainian coal if need be, the coalfields are right there after all along the Don River.

They do control parts of the East Indies,so I guess they can also take some there.Parts of Egypt like the Sinai also has so oil.I have to say though that the sources of oil within the empire itself isn't that abundant.

 

[Evilprodigy]

They do control parts of the East Indies,so I guess they can also take some there.Parts of Egypt like the Sinai also has so oil.I have to say though that the sources of oil within the empire itself isn't that abundant.

Well I was thinking that imported Baku and Romanian oil would be more important and if they get Iraq, or parts of it at least, then the oil there.

 

[JackExpo]

The new architecture was not just for the edification of foreigners. The Hall of History, which has an entrance connecting it directly to the waiting room that served the newest Imperial bedchamber, the Indian Sleep (called because of its architectural motifs based off eastern Roman designs), was finished in 1603. Princess Theodora oversaw the initial collection, a series of paintings and artifacts, including the Black Stone, dating back all the way to the Etruscans.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it sounds like the cornerstone of the Ka'aba will be finding a permanent home in a Roman exhibit hall. I'll make a wild guess and say it isn't just on loan from the Mecca Museum of Islamic Art and History. Does this mean the current war ends without it being returned?

Love all the recent updates, B444. Keep up the amazing work!

 

[Tuna-Fish]

Coal production, doesn't all of the current empire heartland already produce more coal than Britain or even Germany?

Otl Bulgaria area alone should out produced coal over Britain? Or is that restricted present day otl production?

Like Evilprodigy said, the problem is that the coal is deep, below the water table and floods very quickly. This means that you need to have steam pumps ready just to start digging, which rather presents a chicken-and-egg problem of sorts.

This is true for almost all old-world coal deposits, and is caused by the fundamental geology of coal beds -- unlike the rock that carries most other interesting minerals, coal beds tend to be porous and so they flood worse. British ones are the exception, allowing greater initial economical use before good pumps become available, and creating the economic incentive for development of better pumps. Unless something really drastic happens, most timelines that strive for realism should place the birthplace of the industrial revolution in Britain. However, once the relevant technologies are developed, Rhomania seems well poised for a fast catch-up.

 

[HanEmpire]

snip

That's Basileus' plan as well. He said that the Industrial Revolution will begin in the Triple Monarchy, spread to Germany, Scandinavia, Arles and the Iberian states, before coming to Russia and Rhomania.
This is probably a good thing since Rhomania won't be bogged down with inefficient old infrastructure like Great Britain in OTL. They'll be the German Empire of TTL, an industrial giant that outstrip the older industrial nations.
Keeping even closer with this comparison, the general lack of coal and oil reserves within Imperial borders will spur the Empire into funding lots of R&D. Basileus said that the Empire will become the world leader in physics, with all that entails (nukes!).

As for Russia, it'll probably become a sleeping giant à la OTL USA.

 

[Evilprodigy]

Like Evilprodigy said, the problem is that the coal is deep, below the water table and floods very quickly. This means that you need to have steam pumps ready just to start digging, which rather presents a chicken-and-egg problem of sorts.

This is true for almost all old-world coal deposits, and is caused by the fundamental geology of coal beds -- unlike the rock that carries most other interesting minerals, coal beds tend to be porous and so they flood worse. British ones are the exception, allowing greater initial economical use before good pumps become available, and creating the economic incentive for development of better pumps. Unless something really drastic happens, most timelines that strive for realism should place the birthplace of the industrial revolution in Britain. However, once the relevant technologies are developed, Rhomania seems well poised for a fast catch-up.

From what I understand there are coal deposits outside of Britain that could be exploited without steam pumps. I think they exist mostly in Belgium and the Netherlands but I recall several stories of coal use in China during the Song Dynasty which obviously implies that they could get it without steam power.

 

[brokenman]

Any updates on the New World? It's been a while since I heard from them, or am I missing something?

Nice update. Just a suggestion though. The name "First World War" looks like too modern for me. Is that just a namesake?

 

[Avrorrange]

That's Basileus' plan as well. He said that the Industrial Revolution will begin in the Triple Monarchy, spread to Germany, Scandinavia, Arles and the Iberian states, before coming to Russia and Rhomania.
This is probably a good thing since Rhomania won't be bogged down with inefficient old infrastructure like Great Britain in OTL. They'll be the German Empire of TTL, an industrial giant that outstrip the older industrial nations.
Keeping even closer with this comparison, the general lack of coal and oil reserves within Imperial borders will spur the Empire into funding lots of R&D. Basileus said that the Empire will become the world leader in physics, with all that entails (nukes!).

As for Russia, it'll probably become a sleeping giant à la OTL USA.

I thought there's a large reserve of coal in Anatolia?

 

[Evilprodigy]

I thought there's a large reserve of coal in Anatolia?

We just explained in Tuna-Fish's post why that doesn't matter.

 

[Avrorrange]

We just explained in Tuna-Fish's post why that doesn't matter.

Thanks.So where is the Empire going to get it's coal supply from in the meantime before relevant technologies are developed?