America, the Coalition's Buddy - A Franco-American War Timeline

SuperFrog

Update!

Chapter 3: U.S. Politics, 1788-1804​

The Franco-American war would have a huge affect on American politics. The Federalist party became more popular, asserting her complete control over the New England region and New York. The Democratic-Republican party, the Federalists main opposition, would support the war simply for the prospect of new land. Unfortunately for them, the Federalist took the gains from the war as a victory for them, with even southerners praising Adams actions against French tyranny.

Adams would win reelection in 1800, with Democratic-Republican Thomas Jefferson continuing as his Vice President. The Federalist would keep their majority in congress as well. Not wanting to have President and Vice President be different parties, an amendment was added to the U.S. constitution stating the President and Vice President would run together as a team.

The United States would go about dividing her new territories up almost immediately after she received them. Southerners were very please with the outcome of the war, all new territories being slaveholding ones. The Texas Territory and the Louisiana Territory would be carved out of the Louisiana purchase [1] with the remainder becoming the Missouri Territory. East and West Florida would become their own territories. Georgia would cede its western territories to the U.S. government in 1789, the southern portion of these would go to West Florida while the rest would become the (slaveholding) Yazoo Territory. The U.S. owned islands in the Caribbean would become the Caribbean Territory.

The Federalists would keep a majority in the Senate but lose to a slight majority of Democratic-Republics in the House in 1802. They would regain a majority of both houses by 1804. The new state of Ohio [2] would have mostly Democratic-Republicans in the south and Federalists in the north. This made it a highly contested state in the 1804 presidential election. In the end, it would go Federalist, along with New England, New York, and most of Pennsylvania. This would put Alexander Hamilton and Rufus King into the offices of President and Vice President respectively. Jefferson (with James Madison as his running mate) would be defeated for a third time, and it became clear the Democratic-Republicans needed a new candidate...

[1] Louisiana has the same border as the OTL Orleans Territory. Texas is pretty much already defined, but its Northern border is the Red River

[2] Same as OTL.
 

SuperFrog

That depends on what kind of person. The new generation, the ones who weren't around for the Revolutionary War, sees Britain as the mother country, where American values came from. Federalists and most in the north also view Britain favorably. Most in the south still don't have a very high opinion of Britain, although the Democratic-Republicans have dropped there pro-French view.
 

hzn5pk

Is it really called the Louisiana Purchase?

What happened to Aaron Burr and C. C. Pinkney as the VP candidates in 1800?

The system was that each elector in the electoral college could vote for two people. In 1800, the political parties had it figured out that their set of electors could vote for each the P and the VP. So why would Federalist electors vote for Adams and Jefferson? What would have happened is that they would have voted for Adams and Pinckney and one elector would have voted for Adams and some one else.

What is the relationship between Adams and Hamilton in 1800. OTL it was pretty frosty, I would imagine it to be the same.

Also, in 1804, if Hamilton is the main Federalist, it might have Pinckney as VP, a southerner to balance the ticket. I believe that Rufus King is also from New York.

Next update is Hamilton Presidency, will USA join coalition again against Nap?

I wonder, since Jefferson is not going to be a POTUS, does he still get a monument in DC? He was still important. It might be cool because the at the Jefferson memorial, the statue of Jefferson is looking at the White House the place that he does not get into ITTL

(I was in DC in early July and that is what the Park Ranger said and damb if he was not right because I could see the back of the White House from Jefferson's perspective)

So all of the Louisiana territory that became the Missouri territory is open to slavery? But now that I think about it, before the Missouri compromise in OTL, I guess slavery was legal everywhere in the large territory. Or am I wrong and Congress put a limit to it in 1804? That would be different if it gets t be slavery, not that I am a fan of putting good people in bondage, just that it would be something different.

The new candidate for the D-R may be Dewitt Clinton or Aaron Burr himself, something tells me that you have a card up your sleeve here?

When do the American explorer expeditions go out? Should be 1803 or 1804?
 
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Darth_Kiryan

SuperFrog said:
This would put Alexander Hamilton and Rufus King into the offices of President and Vice President respectively. Jefferson (with James Madison as his running mate) would be defeated for a third time, and it became clear the Democratic-Republicans needed a new candidate...
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Nope! Unlikely.

The maintaining of a North-South President/Vice-President is the norm and status quo. Proof being Washington (Virginia-South) and Adams (Mass. - North) and with Jefferson (Virginia - South).

Most likely if Hamilton ran, it would be with a southern Federalist as his VP, most likely either Charles or Thomas Pinckney. For the Democratic-Republicans it would probably be either Aaron Burr or George Clinton. Or even someone like Henry Dearborn. It keeps both parties alive across the country and in balance in their regions.
 

SuperFrog

Ok.... Y'all are right about the presidency thing. Lets say Pickney is the VP in this timeline, its too late to edit the post. And Jefferson ran alongside Dearborn (a hero of the Franco-American war ITTL).

The relationship between Adams and Hamilton is still pretty poor, but its slightly better ITTL.

Not sure of the USA will join against Nappy. Keep in mind they never did actually join the second coalition. And what would they gain from fighting in the Napoleonic Wars?

Louisiana Purchase was a mistake :mad: mad at myself

Jefferson will be remembered similarly to Ben Franklin. He was a founding father who did lots to form the country the U.S. is today but never was President.

Slavery is legal in all of the Missouri territory atm ittl. Most of the areas with a decent population are slaveholding so

We'll see about the next candidate for the Democratic-Republicans ;)

(I actually have no idea lol)

Next update is going to cover exploration :)
 

SuperFrog

Chapter 4: American Western Exploration​

Zebulon Pike would go down in history as the man who discovered most of the west. Pike would serve in western the Franco-American war against indian raids, being promoted to Lieutenant at the end of the war. He would be chosen in 1804 by the Missouri Territories governor Andrew Jackson to lead the Discovery Expedition. The expedition's goal would be to find the source of the Mississippi river, and then to continue on west to find a passage between the rocky mountains to the Pacific Ocean. There were many goals of this expedition, and while many claimed it was for science and discovery, it was probably to give some value to the American claims to the oregon Country.

The Discovery Expedition lasted three years, and seven of the expeditions 48 members would die during it. Pike would successfully find the source of the mississippi, being (unfortunately for the Americans) further south than first thought. He did not, however, find the “northwest passage”, having to cross the rockies to get to the pacific ocean. He and his men would be some of the first Americans to ever set eye on the ocean. Fort Discovery would be founded at the mouth of what is today Pike Sound [1]. Pike and his men camped there for 4 months during the winter. The site of the fort is today Discovery [1], one of the largest cities on the west coast of the United States.

Another famous expedition, though not getting quite as much credit today, was the Clark Expedition. This would be led by another Lieutenant who served in the western front (further south than Pike), William Clark. This expedition would be sent to explore western Texas, as well as gain info on the Spanish territory near the border. This was because many in the U.S. thought that eventually another war would have to be fought to once and for all kick the Spanish out of America. The expedition would be Co-Commanded by Meriwether Lewis.

The Clark expedition would reach the Rio Bravo river, near Santa Fe. However, they were attacked by Spanish troops in the town. Lewis would lose his life in the fighting. Clark turned the expedition around,heading back for Texas. Clark was deeply troubled by Lewis’s death, and he gained a deep hatred for the Spanish. This would prove to be extremely relevant later in history....

[1] OTL Puget Sound.

[2] OTL Fort Townsend, Washington
 

SuperFrog

And here is you're mandatory crappy map of the Pike and Clark Expeditions

JcYgS39.png
 

Darth_Kiryan

These "scientific" expeditions did not happen to include a military objective now di they? To look at the dispositions of say, Spainsh and British fortifications in the region perhaps?
 

SuperFrog

I do believe I mentioned..."as well as to gain info of Spanish territory along the border."

As for the British, they are considered an ally at this point, at least professionally. Many people still remember the Revolutionary War, and while it was never once discussed that Pike's expedition had military purposes, everybody was thinking it.'

Another thing i wanted to bring up, "chapters" is kind of a poor word for these little segments. They, in my opinion, are more like pages of an American history textbook. Do you all think it would be a good idea to start labeling them "Page 5" and so on?
 
Arnold d.c

Arnold d.c

Considering the title says "America, the coalition's buddy" I assume that we may see Americans(pls be Andy Jackson) at Waterloo;)
 

Darth_Kiryan

Arnold d.c said:
Considering the title says "America, the coalition's buddy" I assume that we may see Americans(pls be Andy Jackson) at Waterloo;)
Click to expand...

Why? Why would they go 3000 miles over to Europe to fight France when they can just, and have done, fight France in their own backyard.
 

Alt History Buff

SuperFrog said:
Update!

Chapter 3: U.S. Politics, 1788-1804​

This would put Alexander Hamilton and Rufus King into the offices of President and Vice President respectively. Jefferson (with James Madison as his running mate) would be defeated for a third time, and it became clear the Democratic-Republicans needed a new candidate...

.
Click to expand...

Hamilton was born in the West Indies. He was not eligable to be President.
 

0100010

Alt History Buff said:
Hamilton was born in the West Indies. He was not eligable to be President.
Click to expand...

Yes he was born in the west indies, but he was still eliglble.

"“No Person except a natural born Citizen or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President..."

He was definitely a citizen of New York for many years at the time of the adoption of the constitution, which would have been so easily proven that it would not have been challenged.

http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/news/2009_fall/white_oped.htm

http://emoglen.law.columbia.edu/twiki/bin/view/AmLegalHist/WillHamiltonProject
 

SuperFrog

Arnold d.c said:
Considering the title says "America, the coalition's buddy" I assume that we may see Americans(pls be Andy Jackson) at Waterloo;)
Click to expand...

I said I didn't know if America will be joining the coalition, I never said whether or not I had planned for any Americans to fight in the war ;)
 

Darth_Kiryan

Alt History Buff said:
Hamilton was born in the West Indies. He was not eligible to be President.
Click to expand...

*slap face*

He was a resident of the united states by 1787, and had been for about 20 years. He is eligible.

If we do go by your logic, then Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Quincy-Adams, Jackson and William Henry Harrison were all technically born in British North America, and are thus ineligible as well.
 

SuperFrog

Emotional strife has made it difficult to write, but who am I to make excuses.

Chapter 5​

Most American politicians didn’t want to go to war against Napoleon when the War of the Third Coalition was started. This was reasonable, considering almost all of the fighting was taking place in Europe, halfway across the world. Most Americans saw the war as an opportunity that would waste lives and gain little territory. While some radical politicians on both sides wanted war (Federalist to boost relations with Britain, Democratic-Republicans to get New Spain) they were far outnumbered by those who believed the States should stay at peace and work on settling their new territories.
This did not stop some battle-hungry Americans from taking up arms, however. William Clark would lead the American volunteers against France and her allies in Europe. This group of volunteers would number small, only about 500 men, however they were were happy to fight, and the coalition was happy to have men fighting on their side. Clark’s men would fight in Germany and Austria, even fighting the the Battle of Austerlitz, where the coalition was brutally defeating by a smaller force under France’s new Emperor Napoleon, a tactical genius.

The Americans went back home after the War of the Third Coalition ended. However, a Fourth Coalition would be formed against Napoleon and his Puppet-Allies soon after. Clark, assisted by a slightly larger group of volunteers, would join the British in their invasion of Rio de la Plata. The group of 750 would join a British invasion force of about 3,000.

The invasion would prove a huge success. Rio de la Plata was considered one of the more stable countries at the time (at least within the major cities such as Buenos Aires) and almost all of the Spanish Colonial Militia was in Peru fighting rebels. Clark would tap into his hatred for the Spanish after the killing of his friend near Santa Fe, and would mow down the small groups of Spanish troops. The invasion would have taken Buenos Aries, Montevideo, and most of the significantly populated areas of the colony by the end of the War of the Fourth Coalition.


Clark and most of the British and American soldiers would remain in Rio de la Plata after the war ended. With the outbreak of the Peninsular war, and learning that Britain’s troops would now be helping the Spanish against the rebels, Clark and his men would leave, Clark refusing to aide the Spanish. A few groups of American fighters would go on to volunteer in the rest of the Napoleonic wars, but Clark would stay in the U.S.
 

SuperFrog

Clark is undoubtedly insane ITTL. He HATES the Spanish more than any man should hate everyone. He is going to play a large role in my timeline, and thats all I'm going to say ;)
 
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