AHC: Make the Holy Roman Empire stable.
- Thread starter GameBawesome
- Start date
I’m going to need to rename the title. Maybe to “AHC: Have the HRE Stable” or “AHC: Centralize the HRE”
Not really, but that one movement (who originally had NO intention to create a scission from the church) acquired the OTL power and force BECAUSE the Emperor do not stopped it
It was not the single one. There were other movements which started to evolve in Europe from the 12nd century, some criticising the corruption inside the Catholic Church, some which disagreed with the central dogmas (waldensians, lolards, hussites). And the ideas are atractive not only to the common people but also to nobles and monarchs, which could levy taxes from the archbishoprics to finance an incresingly expensive state organism
And they were still kept under control or dealt with, without any breakup of the Church until that one who was not stopped in his infancy
Yes but it was like putting a lid on a boiling pot. The intelectual environment created by the Rennasaince and Humanism is perfect for the proliferation of movements of dissent from the established cultural currents. No amount of coercion can change the evolution in thought which occured at that point in time. It was not about just corruption it was about a new mode of governing the state, the birth of a new report between State and Church, between Church and common people etc.
The Papacy destroyed dynasties that actively challenged the Pope. Those who did not, such as Lothar III and his Saxon allies, were not in danger. Every major Pope in the High Middle Ages had a pro-Imperial mentality until said emperor began to attempt to steal away power from the Holy See.
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Jonathan1997
Banned
That just proves my point I like to think of the Roman Catholic church like the United Nations but with actual power.
I don't think it is that simple. Luther did not originally call for a new church, but a reform of the Catholic church, and there were many who were sympathetic to his early arguments. Executing him right away may have been an unpopular decision and turned him into a martyr.
And just after, Zwingli developed his own ideas in Switzerland, outside the reach of the emperor.
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If the papacy plays its cards right, especially after Innocent III, Europe might be subject to a literal papal monarchy
My suggestion:
Grant all of the larger states elector status and then have all of the electors divide up the smaller states among themselves.
HRE ends up as a federation of 9 or so electors and the emperor is seen as a first among equals instead of above the electors.
Either that or Have the Pope and Emperor co-rule the empire, with the church acting as the Judicial branch, the emperor as the executive branch.
Grant all of the larger states elector status and then have all of the electors divide up the smaller states among themselves.
HRE ends up as a federation of 9 or so electors and the emperor is seen as a first among equals instead of above the electors.
Either that or Have the Pope and Emperor co-rule the empire, with the church acting as the Judicial branch, the emperor as the executive branch.
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Large states don't need the Emperor as their ruler. Small subjects of HRE was the only support of the Emperor because they need imperial institutes for their survival
Except electors would want the opportunity of being emperor and the emperor also provides protection against the big blue blob as well as other much larger foreign enemies.
If your argument was right, then none of the electors would have sided with Austria in the 30 years war.
Large states feel less threat and nothing prevents them from forming alliances between themselves and foreigners like England without the Emperor
IOTL Imperial circles performed better in areas without major states
Church electors was Austrian allies because it was religious conflict, and only Bavaria was Austrian ally from secular electors because they received this title as an ally of Austria during this war
Easiest way kill off Philip II of Spain, that means that one of Ferdinand’s son inherits Spain and Burgundy stay together with Austria.
Maximillian II’s male line survive and the 30YW is avoided.
Joseph I survives longer and produce a son or Charles VI produce a son.
Prussia lose the 7YW.
Austria crush the French Republic.
Maximillian II’s male line survive and the 30YW is avoided.
Joseph I survives longer and produce a son or Charles VI produce a son.
Prussia lose the 7YW.
Austria crush the French Republic.
Have the title pass to Bavaria in 1815 at the Congress of Vienna who then lead a unification of the other German states as a bloc to oppose Prussia and perhaps Austria. Basis for a mostly unified Germany by 1848. Bonus - Falkenhayn Castle may still ger built under King Ludwig. Double Bonus - Austria and perhaps other territory may join if Hungary succeeds in breaking the Dual Monarchy before it exists.
As others have said, the Holy Roman Empire was as Holy, Roman, and Imperial as it wanted to be. If you were a person of recognized saintly goodness or a church organization in OTL HRE, you had a recognized place. Roman law was the law. And the Emperor had armies. Centralizing the HRE would make it Greater Germany or something. Keeping it a loose confederacy sometimes turtling up against threats or to grab opportunities could have happened if:
The HRE gets an artillery park before the French, say 1400 instead of the French 1500. Artillery meant you could knock down fortifications much more easily, and have guns to make your army an army of horse, guns and foot instead of just horse and foot.
The HRE makes its peace with people who support the Bible on its own against the rest of the Catholic Magisterium, as long as they don't annoy other Catholics. Bible Catholics instead of outright Protestants.
The HRE uses the Hanse to build tall ships first and get salted cod for everyone in the HRE. Protein is a big deal. Tall ships give you oceanic power, the power to travel the world.
The HRE forts up something like Gibraltar in the North sea- maybe an island in the Hebrides, with Iceland as an extension like Tangier was to Gibraltar. Something that limits British isles power in the north Atlantic. Maybe some aggressive, annoying HRE prince gets sent away from everyone local he's annoyed, to build a tough fort and hold off the Brit pirates. With that the HRE will reach and hold the mouth of the St Lawrence, and sent people up to the Great Lakes. An HRE holding Canada and sending gun salesmen in canoes through the Mississippi valley to Native Americans, they probably still lose the Thirteen Colonies territories to the Brits, but they hold Canada.
The Spanish still get Spanish America, and a weaker Britain squeezed between two Catholic powers is less able to pirate them.