I really like your ideas. Please keep up
Thank you Stark!
I will try my best not to disappoint! AH Discussion: The Sun Never Sets
- Thread starter Kalki
- Start date
Thank you Stark!
I will try my best not to disappoint! Bump!
Will try to post a new update by 1800 GMT...
Till then feel free to enjoy this discussion in the link below
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=324681
Cheers
Atandra
Will try to post a new update by 1800 GMT...
Till then feel free to enjoy this discussion in the link below
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=324681
Cheers
Atandra
Thande
Donor
Loads of interesting ideas and underused PODs here, I like.
One suggestion I might make is that I have gotten the impression that the selection of the Viceroy of India was often taken on what almost amounts to a whim by the government, so for example rather than saying Lord This-or-that decides to do something differently, you could potentially just say the government appoints somebody different. That's debatable though because I know you have also used the OTL Viceroys' personalities so you might want to keep those.
When you're writing about events which are unfamiliar to a lot of readers, it can be a good idea to put a footnote after an event and say "In OTL, this happened instead" so they can see where the changes are and how significant they are.
Keep it up!
One suggestion I might make is that I have gotten the impression that the selection of the Viceroy of India was often taken on what almost amounts to a whim by the government, so for example rather than saying Lord This-or-that decides to do something differently, you could potentially just say the government appoints somebody different. That's debatable though because I know you have also used the OTL Viceroys' personalities so you might want to keep those.
When you're writing about events which are unfamiliar to a lot of readers, it can be a good idea to put a footnote after an event and say "In OTL, this happened instead" so they can see where the changes are and how significant they are.
Keep it up!
Update #2 ... as promised!
Before i begin i must thank you all for your comments and appreciations. I know it is not a lot of effort of just type out a word or two of encouragement for me, but it means a lot to me!
Two weeks before [1] the end of the Legation Quarter siege Empress Dowager Cixi had fled Beijing to Xian taking along Emperor Guangxu. Guangxu by this point was a prisoner in his own gilded cage and all power was in the hands of the Dowager Empress. [2]
From Xian the Empress issued a declaration of war [3] and what since been a policy of tacit support for the rebels had turned into a full-fledged war on the foreign countries part of the multi-national coalition.
During the assault on the legation quarters Prince Duan [4] had the distinction of blowing himself up when one of the cannons he planned to use to ‘ground the Legations and the foreign devils in them into dust’ exploded. The assault on the Legation quarter quickly fell into disarray and it was possibly one of the reasons why anyone holed up in the Legation Quarter made it out alive.
Otherwise the assault on Beijing by the multi-national relief force was pretty simple affair for the western forces to deal with. The British, American, Japanese, French, German and Russian forces approached from the west of the city and blasted through the many gates in the walls of Beijing. [5]
General Dong Fuxiang and his army were on their way to assault the Xigu fort and the remnants of the failed Seymour expedition when the news of Beijing’s fall arrived. Admiral Seymour had underestimated Chinese capabilities and tactics and that had cost him his life while defending the fort. [6]
When news of the lifting of the siege arrived at General Dong’s camp, he was infuriated. Soon he and his army of 25,000 Boxer and Chinese troops including 10,000 Knasu Braves fell upon the Xigu fort. [7]
After lifiting the siege on the Legation Quarters the multi-national force wheeled south towards the Xigu fort to link up with the Xigu Relief expedition marching from Tiensin and the crush general Dong’s army and save the Seymour Expedition. [8a]
What followed next was the Battle of Xigu fort were the besieging Chinese and Boxer forces were trapped between the fort and the multi-nation force. However General Dong had managed to escape along with the cream of his troops to the west and later headed south towards Xian to regroup and rearm, sacrificing thousands of the expendable Boxer militia forces to buy him time. [8b]
The multi-nation force then began its long march to Xian. With the news of the fall of Beijing the entire countryside had raised arms against the multi-nation force. Every day on the march to Xian the forces were harassed by local Boxer sympathizers, boxer militia and even bandits. It was in this phase of the campaign that some of the worst atrocities of the war were committed by both sides.[9]
Empress Cixi had called up her armies and mobilized a huge force of almost 150,000 irregulars and militia in the Emperor’s name and had called upon her trusted general Yuan Shikai.[10]
Yuan who in another time would be the President of the nascent Chinese republic and later self-declared Emperor of China was a survivor. And no one is a survivor if they cannot tell which side to choose.
He had earlier betrayed the young Emperor Guangxu and had in the process earned Empress Cixi trust when he told her of a plot by the young Emperor to rid himself of the Empress Dowager.[11]
But he knew that this time the foreigners were out for blood and there would be no quarter given to any Boxer collaborator when the dust settled.
So he promptly moved his 7,000 strong ‘New Created Army’ [12], the most modern troops on the Chinese side and an additional 20,000 irregulars in support of the Westerners from his base in Beiyang [13]
The large Chinese army moved north to link up with General Dong’s troops retreating from Xigu fort around modern day Linfen, in Shanxi province.
In an attempt to curry favor with the Westerners, Yuan intercepted the 5000 exhausted troops in the vanguard of General Dong’s retreat just 50 miles north of Linfen. Knowing that the only way to safety was right through General Yuan’s lines General Dong gave battle. The ensuing battle quickly turned into a rout for General Yuan’s forces when he was shot down from his horse by a stray bullet. Fearing their leader dead, the Beiyang forces scattered from the battlefield and turned what would have been certain victory into a decisive defeat.
Unfortunately for General Yuan he was very much alive and capture by Genral Dong’s forces. He was then transported to face the very disappointed Empress Cixi, and the Empress does not appreciate being disappointed. He was given his sentence; Lingchi. [14]
With barring this minor delay, I mean ‘battle’; General Dong reached the rendezvous and linked up Empress Cixi’s forces. The massive Chinese force then decided to give battle to the western forces moving in from the north. Led by General Dong and confident of all the signs of their victory the fanatic Boxer and Irregular Chinese forces fell upon the cannons, machine guns, rifle and bayonets of the multi-nation force. The Chinese forces were annihilated.
The multi-nation forces never really had time to dig in but nevertheless the discipline, training and technology of the western forces had won the day. The multi-nation force sustained 12,378 casualties. The Chinese forces had lost over 70,000 men including General Dong Fuxiang. [15]
Not wanting to waste any more time the commander of the multi-nation force, the British General Gaselee decided to press on the advantage and pursue the haggard remnants of the Chinese force on their retreat to Xian.
However he did not have to pursue the Chinese forces for long as he was soon met by emissaries from the Emperor Guangxu. Upon receiving news of the devastating defeat at her court the Dowager Empress Cixi had been inconsolable. She died the same night. Emperor Guangxu, now free from the Empress’ clutches had assumed control and ordered an immediate end to all hostile actions against the multi-nation forces and had indicated his desire to meet the British Commander in person on neutral ground.
And thus the Boxer war came to an end. In the following negotiations the Chinese Emperor agreed to several concessions to the European powers and Japan. The Russians and the Japanese wanted to carve up China between the various powers in the Eight Nation Alliance but the Germans, Austro-Hungarians, Italians and the Americans were against such a move, while Britain and France were fairly ambiguous about the whole scheme.
In the end because basically no one could ‘decide who gets what’ the Great powers were convinced one by one by the Chinese Emperor with several minor territorial concessions [16], the recognition of British interests in Tibet and Guangdong, Japanese interests in Southern Manchuria and Russian interest in Mongolia and Northern Manchuria along with hefty reparations. [17] Chinese troops were not to enter Tibet, Manchuria, Xinjiang or Mongolia.
More importantly perhaps China obtained German, British and American support for reform and modernization of the Chinese state in the form of advisers and experts.
All of the above was finally agreed upon in the 'Boxer Protocol'. the treaty's full name was 'Austria-Hungary, Belgium, France, Germany, Great Britain, Italy, Japan, The Netherlands, Russia, Spain, United States and China—Final Protocol for the Settlement of the Disturbances of 1900', also known as 'Xinchou Treaty' in 1901.
The second wave of the multi-nation had just landed three days earlier and these would help the Chinese Emperor re-assert control over most of the country side over the next 3 years as a part of the International China Relief Expedition composed mainly British Indian and American troops form Philippines. [18]
Moving back to the Empire.
One of the more interesting developments was the appointment of Lord Lorne [19], previously the Governor General of Canada as the Governor-General of India in 1894 by the fourth Gladstone government. Lord Lorne was an able administrator and more importantly perhaps was the husband of Princess Louise, Daughter of Prince-Consort Albert and Empress Victoria. Theirs wasn’t a particularly happy marriage but it wasn’t bad either. Despite rumors of Lord Lorne’s homosexuality, he was in the end a devoted husband.
During his five year tenure he travelled [20] far and wide throughout the sub-continent. Princess Louise frequently accompanied her husband. He frequently interacted [21] with his Indian subjects on his travels and soon gained a deep understanding of the people of the sub-continent. He didn’t just listen to the educated elite and often arrogant and snotty Indians, he often talked to the people around him. He talked to the servants around him in Calcutta, to the stokers and guardsmen in the trains he rode in the Northern Plains, to the ‘Palkhiwalas’ [22]of the litters he traveled in the Kutch and the ‘mahouts’ [23] of the elephants he rode in the Deccan. This pretty much opened his eyes.
This simple act of communicating, initially through interpreters, [24] made the challenges facing the people of the sub-continent clear to him. He saw the poverty, the hunger; he saw the effects of the failure of the British administration on the people of India. But he was not the only one who saw.
Things came to a head in the famine of 1896 [25] when his attempts to divert more resources to feed the starving poor in India was met by opposition from the Tory government back home. And this where his wife came into the picture.
Lord Lorne was accompanied by his wife on almost every travel he took throughout the sub-continent. Princess Louise was as much of a witness as Lord Lorne was to the situation in India. And that reflected in the numerous letters to her mother, Empress Victoria.
Interspersed between the lines describe what a joy it was to ride an elephant, and the thrill of seeing a tiger lurking in the underbrush, were words which painted a grim but true picture of the poverty of the sub-continent. She had written a letter dated April 16th 1896 to the Empress in which she mentioned that her husband told her that over a million people would die if his steps for famine relief in the Bombay Province were not sanctioned. She implored her mother to intercede on their behalf.
Victoria, Empress of India, perhaps the greatest queen in the history of England and the greatest monarch in the history of the Empire decided that this was a matter that demanded her attention.
After all she was the Empress of India, and what is a monarch who doesn't look after her subjects?
Empress Victoria never really intervened much in the affairs of the State, less so in her later frail years [26] but she was adamant on getting her way on this matter. Despite opposition from everyone form Chamberlain the Secretary of the Colonies to Secretary of State for India Hamilton to even the Prime Minister Gascoyne-Cecil [27] not to mention more three-quarters of the Tories the Empress ensured that she got a major reform passed by the parliament.
Lord Lorne was authorized by the British Parliament to pursue all avenues to eliminate the threat of famine in the Indian subcontinent and ‘promote the general welfare of Her Majesty’s subjects’ in the British Raj.
And this was soon proven to be one of the major inflection points in the history of the British Empire.
[1] Empress Cixi fled OTL on August 15th to Xian
[2] OTL as well as ITTL Emperor Guangxu was under house arrest under orders from Empress Cixi.
[3] OTL this happened after the firing on Dagu fort, Empress Cixi denied that it was issued with her knowledge in OTL, obviously.
[4] Prince Duan lived on till 24th November 1922 in exile. He was considered a War-Hero by many in China.
[5] Pretty much as in OTL, except the French contingent didn't get lost this time around
[6] Admiral Seymour lived on in OTL, just so you know.
[7] OTL most of Dong's forces where in Beijing and some went south to harass the Seymour Expedition. ITTL he takes his entire force to quash the expedition half way into the siege.
[8a] ITTL
[8b] OTL a much smaller force was sent to support the Seymour Expedition.
[9] In OTL too the Boxer rebellion was infamous for the atrocities committed by both sides.
[10] Yep! THAT Yuan Shikai!
[11] True story!
[12] Formed after the humiliating defeat at the hands of the Japanese in the Sino-Japanese War.
[13] OTL those forces supported the Westerners but just mopped around Beiyang province eliminating Boxers.
[14] Slow Slicing. Every bit as painful as it sounds. Google it to satisfy your morbid curiosity! *Muhahaha!
[15] Was exiled in the OTL post-Boxer War aftermath and was exiled to Gansu province where he died in 1908. Stripped of all ranks and honors posthumously.
[16] The basically OTL concessions were expanded, quite expanded.
[17] 450 million taels,i.e., 17,000 tons of silver as per OTL.
[18] Salaries and other costs paid for by His Celestial Majesty the Emperor of China of course.
[19] John Campbell, 9th Duke of Argyll. Pretty swell guy, unlike OTL Lord Elgin
[20] Did a lot of travelling during his time in Canada in OTL
[21] An traveler worth his salt talks to the locals. He was no exception as the accounts of his travels in North America show.
[22] 'Litter-bearers'
[23] Mahaout = the guy who rides on an elephant and steers the ride while the passengers sit in a basket like thing right behind him. Do go try out an elephant ride. They are fun!
[24] You would be surprised how many Viceroys of India actually learned the local Indian languages.
[25] OTL famine. Lord Elgin the OTL counterpart to Lord Lorne pretty much decided that its perfectly normal for 4-5 million people to die from hunger in the sub-continent from time to time.
[26] pretty much true in OTL
[27] OTL conservatives, i decided to keep them in the same role because its tough to find replacements fro everyone and everything
P.S. God save the Queen!
P.P.S. this update is dedicate to Thande. Thank you for your suggestions!
Before i begin i must thank you all for your comments and appreciations. I know it is not a lot of effort of just type out a word or two of encouragement for me, but it means a lot to me!
Two weeks before [1] the end of the Legation Quarter siege Empress Dowager Cixi had fled Beijing to Xian taking along Emperor Guangxu. Guangxu by this point was a prisoner in his own gilded cage and all power was in the hands of the Dowager Empress. [2]
From Xian the Empress issued a declaration of war [3] and what since been a policy of tacit support for the rebels had turned into a full-fledged war on the foreign countries part of the multi-national coalition.
During the assault on the legation quarters Prince Duan [4] had the distinction of blowing himself up when one of the cannons he planned to use to ‘ground the Legations and the foreign devils in them into dust’ exploded. The assault on the Legation quarter quickly fell into disarray and it was possibly one of the reasons why anyone holed up in the Legation Quarter made it out alive.
Otherwise the assault on Beijing by the multi-national relief force was pretty simple affair for the western forces to deal with. The British, American, Japanese, French, German and Russian forces approached from the west of the city and blasted through the many gates in the walls of Beijing. [5]
General Dong Fuxiang and his army were on their way to assault the Xigu fort and the remnants of the failed Seymour expedition when the news of Beijing’s fall arrived. Admiral Seymour had underestimated Chinese capabilities and tactics and that had cost him his life while defending the fort. [6]
When news of the lifting of the siege arrived at General Dong’s camp, he was infuriated. Soon he and his army of 25,000 Boxer and Chinese troops including 10,000 Knasu Braves fell upon the Xigu fort. [7]
After lifiting the siege on the Legation Quarters the multi-national force wheeled south towards the Xigu fort to link up with the Xigu Relief expedition marching from Tiensin and the crush general Dong’s army and save the Seymour Expedition. [8a]
What followed next was the Battle of Xigu fort were the besieging Chinese and Boxer forces were trapped between the fort and the multi-nation force. However General Dong had managed to escape along with the cream of his troops to the west and later headed south towards Xian to regroup and rearm, sacrificing thousands of the expendable Boxer militia forces to buy him time. [8b]
The multi-nation force then began its long march to Xian. With the news of the fall of Beijing the entire countryside had raised arms against the multi-nation force. Every day on the march to Xian the forces were harassed by local Boxer sympathizers, boxer militia and even bandits. It was in this phase of the campaign that some of the worst atrocities of the war were committed by both sides.[9]
Empress Cixi had called up her armies and mobilized a huge force of almost 150,000 irregulars and militia in the Emperor’s name and had called upon her trusted general Yuan Shikai.[10]
Yuan who in another time would be the President of the nascent Chinese republic and later self-declared Emperor of China was a survivor. And no one is a survivor if they cannot tell which side to choose.
He had earlier betrayed the young Emperor Guangxu and had in the process earned Empress Cixi trust when he told her of a plot by the young Emperor to rid himself of the Empress Dowager.[11]
But he knew that this time the foreigners were out for blood and there would be no quarter given to any Boxer collaborator when the dust settled.
So he promptly moved his 7,000 strong ‘New Created Army’ [12], the most modern troops on the Chinese side and an additional 20,000 irregulars in support of the Westerners from his base in Beiyang [13]
The large Chinese army moved north to link up with General Dong’s troops retreating from Xigu fort around modern day Linfen, in Shanxi province.
In an attempt to curry favor with the Westerners, Yuan intercepted the 5000 exhausted troops in the vanguard of General Dong’s retreat just 50 miles north of Linfen. Knowing that the only way to safety was right through General Yuan’s lines General Dong gave battle. The ensuing battle quickly turned into a rout for General Yuan’s forces when he was shot down from his horse by a stray bullet. Fearing their leader dead, the Beiyang forces scattered from the battlefield and turned what would have been certain victory into a decisive defeat.
Unfortunately for General Yuan he was very much alive and capture by Genral Dong’s forces. He was then transported to face the very disappointed Empress Cixi, and the Empress does not appreciate being disappointed. He was given his sentence; Lingchi. [14]
With barring this minor delay, I mean ‘battle’; General Dong reached the rendezvous and linked up Empress Cixi’s forces. The massive Chinese force then decided to give battle to the western forces moving in from the north. Led by General Dong and confident of all the signs of their victory the fanatic Boxer and Irregular Chinese forces fell upon the cannons, machine guns, rifle and bayonets of the multi-nation force. The Chinese forces were annihilated.
The multi-nation forces never really had time to dig in but nevertheless the discipline, training and technology of the western forces had won the day. The multi-nation force sustained 12,378 casualties. The Chinese forces had lost over 70,000 men including General Dong Fuxiang. [15]
Not wanting to waste any more time the commander of the multi-nation force, the British General Gaselee decided to press on the advantage and pursue the haggard remnants of the Chinese force on their retreat to Xian.
However he did not have to pursue the Chinese forces for long as he was soon met by emissaries from the Emperor Guangxu. Upon receiving news of the devastating defeat at her court the Dowager Empress Cixi had been inconsolable. She died the same night. Emperor Guangxu, now free from the Empress’ clutches had assumed control and ordered an immediate end to all hostile actions against the multi-nation forces and had indicated his desire to meet the British Commander in person on neutral ground.
And thus the Boxer war came to an end. In the following negotiations the Chinese Emperor agreed to several concessions to the European powers and Japan. The Russians and the Japanese wanted to carve up China between the various powers in the Eight Nation Alliance but the Germans, Austro-Hungarians, Italians and the Americans were against such a move, while Britain and France were fairly ambiguous about the whole scheme.
In the end because basically no one could ‘decide who gets what’ the Great powers were convinced one by one by the Chinese Emperor with several minor territorial concessions [16], the recognition of British interests in Tibet and Guangdong, Japanese interests in Southern Manchuria and Russian interest in Mongolia and Northern Manchuria along with hefty reparations. [17] Chinese troops were not to enter Tibet, Manchuria, Xinjiang or Mongolia.
More importantly perhaps China obtained German, British and American support for reform and modernization of the Chinese state in the form of advisers and experts.
All of the above was finally agreed upon in the 'Boxer Protocol'. the treaty's full name was 'Austria-Hungary, Belgium, France, Germany, Great Britain, Italy, Japan, The Netherlands, Russia, Spain, United States and China—Final Protocol for the Settlement of the Disturbances of 1900', also known as 'Xinchou Treaty' in 1901.
The second wave of the multi-nation had just landed three days earlier and these would help the Chinese Emperor re-assert control over most of the country side over the next 3 years as a part of the International China Relief Expedition composed mainly British Indian and American troops form Philippines. [18]
Moving back to the Empire.
One of the more interesting developments was the appointment of Lord Lorne [19], previously the Governor General of Canada as the Governor-General of India in 1894 by the fourth Gladstone government. Lord Lorne was an able administrator and more importantly perhaps was the husband of Princess Louise, Daughter of Prince-Consort Albert and Empress Victoria. Theirs wasn’t a particularly happy marriage but it wasn’t bad either. Despite rumors of Lord Lorne’s homosexuality, he was in the end a devoted husband.
During his five year tenure he travelled [20] far and wide throughout the sub-continent. Princess Louise frequently accompanied her husband. He frequently interacted [21] with his Indian subjects on his travels and soon gained a deep understanding of the people of the sub-continent. He didn’t just listen to the educated elite and often arrogant and snotty Indians, he often talked to the people around him. He talked to the servants around him in Calcutta, to the stokers and guardsmen in the trains he rode in the Northern Plains, to the ‘Palkhiwalas’ [22]of the litters he traveled in the Kutch and the ‘mahouts’ [23] of the elephants he rode in the Deccan. This pretty much opened his eyes.
This simple act of communicating, initially through interpreters, [24] made the challenges facing the people of the sub-continent clear to him. He saw the poverty, the hunger; he saw the effects of the failure of the British administration on the people of India. But he was not the only one who saw.
Things came to a head in the famine of 1896 [25] when his attempts to divert more resources to feed the starving poor in India was met by opposition from the Tory government back home. And this where his wife came into the picture.
Lord Lorne was accompanied by his wife on almost every travel he took throughout the sub-continent. Princess Louise was as much of a witness as Lord Lorne was to the situation in India. And that reflected in the numerous letters to her mother, Empress Victoria.
Interspersed between the lines describe what a joy it was to ride an elephant, and the thrill of seeing a tiger lurking in the underbrush, were words which painted a grim but true picture of the poverty of the sub-continent. She had written a letter dated April 16th 1896 to the Empress in which she mentioned that her husband told her that over a million people would die if his steps for famine relief in the Bombay Province were not sanctioned. She implored her mother to intercede on their behalf.
Victoria, Empress of India, perhaps the greatest queen in the history of England and the greatest monarch in the history of the Empire decided that this was a matter that demanded her attention.
After all she was the Empress of India, and what is a monarch who doesn't look after her subjects?
Empress Victoria never really intervened much in the affairs of the State, less so in her later frail years [26] but she was adamant on getting her way on this matter. Despite opposition from everyone form Chamberlain the Secretary of the Colonies to Secretary of State for India Hamilton to even the Prime Minister Gascoyne-Cecil [27] not to mention more three-quarters of the Tories the Empress ensured that she got a major reform passed by the parliament.
Lord Lorne was authorized by the British Parliament to pursue all avenues to eliminate the threat of famine in the Indian subcontinent and ‘promote the general welfare of Her Majesty’s subjects’ in the British Raj.
And this was soon proven to be one of the major inflection points in the history of the British Empire.
[1] Empress Cixi fled OTL on August 15th to Xian
[2] OTL as well as ITTL Emperor Guangxu was under house arrest under orders from Empress Cixi.
[3] OTL this happened after the firing on Dagu fort, Empress Cixi denied that it was issued with her knowledge in OTL, obviously.
[4] Prince Duan lived on till 24th November 1922 in exile. He was considered a War-Hero by many in China.
[5] Pretty much as in OTL, except the French contingent didn't get lost this time around
[6] Admiral Seymour lived on in OTL, just so you know.
[7] OTL most of Dong's forces where in Beijing and some went south to harass the Seymour Expedition. ITTL he takes his entire force to quash the expedition half way into the siege.
[8a] ITTL
[8b] OTL a much smaller force was sent to support the Seymour Expedition.
[9] In OTL too the Boxer rebellion was infamous for the atrocities committed by both sides.
[10] Yep! THAT Yuan Shikai!
[11] True story!
[12] Formed after the humiliating defeat at the hands of the Japanese in the Sino-Japanese War.
[13] OTL those forces supported the Westerners but just mopped around Beiyang province eliminating Boxers.
[14] Slow Slicing. Every bit as painful as it sounds. Google it to satisfy your morbid curiosity! *Muhahaha!
[15] Was exiled in the OTL post-Boxer War aftermath and was exiled to Gansu province where he died in 1908. Stripped of all ranks and honors posthumously.
[16] The basically OTL concessions were expanded, quite expanded.
[17] 450 million taels,i.e., 17,000 tons of silver as per OTL.
[18] Salaries and other costs paid for by His Celestial Majesty the Emperor of China of course.
[19] John Campbell, 9th Duke of Argyll. Pretty swell guy, unlike OTL Lord Elgin
[20] Did a lot of travelling during his time in Canada in OTL
[21] An traveler worth his salt talks to the locals. He was no exception as the accounts of his travels in North America show.
[22] 'Litter-bearers'
[23] Mahaout = the guy who rides on an elephant and steers the ride while the passengers sit in a basket like thing right behind him. Do go try out an elephant ride. They are fun!
[24] You would be surprised how many Viceroys of India actually learned the local Indian languages.
[25] OTL famine. Lord Elgin the OTL counterpart to Lord Lorne pretty much decided that its perfectly normal for 4-5 million people to die from hunger in the sub-continent from time to time.
[26] pretty much true in OTL
[27] OTL conservatives, i decided to keep them in the same role because its tough to find replacements fro everyone and everything
P.S. God save the Queen!
P.P.S. this update is dedicate to Thande. Thank you for your suggestions!
Good stuff. It's funny how often the Viceroys themselves receive little attention; they were arguably good people with a concern for the people they were in charge of administering. Much of what we would put the blame on, is actually Parliament itself.
Even George Nathaniel Curzon, the man who tried to break Indian nationalism, was also someone who wanted to increase enrolment in trade and technical schools, and build new ones where they were not present before.
Even George Nathaniel Curzon, the man who tried to break Indian nationalism, was also someone who wanted to increase enrolment in trade and technical schools, and build new ones where they were not present before.
@Badshah
I'm glad you liked it!
As for the matter of Viceroys there were both good ones and bad ones. Surprisingly for most modern day Indian nationalists most of them were pretty good, as in they were very capable administrators and quite a few were even genuinely concerned with the welfare of the Indian subjects. India is a vast land and there is only so much one can do. However more often than not the Viceroys were crucial in passing important reforms like the Minto-Morley or Montague-Chelmsford or even the PoD of my TL - the Ilbert Bill.
As for Lord Curzpn he won't be the Viceroy ITTL. But I am sure you wi find gis replacement interesting.
I'm glad you liked it!
As for the matter of Viceroys there were both good ones and bad ones. Surprisingly for most modern day Indian nationalists most of them were pretty good, as in they were very capable administrators and quite a few were even genuinely concerned with the welfare of the Indian subjects. India is a vast land and there is only so much one can do. However more often than not the Viceroys were crucial in passing important reforms like the Minto-Morley or Montague-Chelmsford or even the PoD of my TL - the Ilbert Bill.
As for Lord Curzpn he won't be the Viceroy ITTL. But I am sure you wi find gis replacement interesting.
A Meiji in Qing China?
@ Stark
Thank you! Emperor Guangxu was a reformer and wanted to pull a Meiji in China. That kind of got him killed in OTL.
Modern day forensic analysis of his remains revealed levels of Arsenic around 2000 times the lethal dose. It is suspected that Yuan Shikai, who later in OTL proclaimed himself as Emperor of China, was behind it.
Hopefully the Emperor gets a chance to institute some of his reforms.
Will try to update by Sunday.
@ Stark
Thank you!
Emperor Guangxu was a reformer and wanted to pull a Meiji in China. That kind of got him killed in OTL.Modern day forensic analysis of his remains revealed levels of Arsenic around 2000 times the lethal dose. It is suspected that Yuan Shikai, who later in OTL proclaimed himself as Emperor of China, was behind it.
Hopefully the Emperor gets a chance to institute some of his reforms.
Will try to update by Sunday.
Interesting. I assume the lack of Ilbert Bill hysteria will save political capital for other reforms that will help to reconcile the Indian upper class (broader representation in the elite civil service, reforms to municipal and provincial government) as well as the common people (you've already mentioned famine relief, and I would hope repeal of the salt tax/monopoly).
I guess I'll wait and see how this can be accomplished without turning the British Empire into the Indian Empire. Maybe this will be an empire of autonomous dominions without a federal structure, or maybe it will be a two-winged empire with Britain and the white dominions on the one hand, and India on the other, having mutually exclusive governing institutions.
I guess I'll wait and see how this can be accomplished without turning the British Empire into the Indian Empire. Maybe this will be an empire of autonomous dominions without a federal structure, or maybe it will be a two-winged empire with Britain and the white dominions on the one hand, and India on the other, having mutually exclusive governing institutions.
Sorry I couldn't put an update on tonight. The next update is kind of important so I had to put some extra effort into it. Update will be up tomorrow! Thank you for being patient, engaging in the discussion with your comments and suggestions and for bring so appreciative of my modest efforts!
Sincerely,
Atandra Anwesh
Sincerely,
Atandra Anwesh
Update #4... as promised!
With the approval from the Parliament Lord Lorne set about implementing the “British India Administration Act of 1899’, popularly known as the Lorne Reforms.
Lord Lorne was not a starry eyed reformer; he was much of a realist and had a proven record of being a capable political negotiator. He also had a very clear idea of what resources he had at hand in the sub-continent and more importantly what could be agreed upon by the British Parliament. While Empress Victoria’s support had given him a good deal of political capital it was never a blank check.
So he decided to concentrate on those policy decisions he knew could be passed, and a bit more for the policy breathing space that he knew he would need the most in the following negotiations.
He laid out a very meticulously crafted plan, which composed of several steps. His first step after obtaining Her Majesty’s permission in June of 1896 was to set up a committee at each of the three Presidencies and two more for the Princely States and the non-Presidency provinces. He hand-picked the members of each of the committee, taking care to not completely exclude the natives from the committees. He was careful to exclude most of the more ‘radical’ proponents of reform from the committees so as to avoid any ‘complications’ in their functioning.
The work of these 5 committees was to travel the length and breadth of their respective concerns and figure out how basically to improve the administration of the sub-continent. The committees were supposed to submit a report by the winter of 1897. The committees officially had the seemingly innocuous task of merely tabulating reports about government efficiency. Given Lord Lorne’s reputation as quite the penny-pincher when it came to waste in government spending, it wasn’t all that much of a surprise.
Soon after the reports were submitted in early spring of 1898, Lord Lorne set about drafting the ‘British India Administration Bill’ or the ‘Raj Bill as it was known at that time.
His proposals weren’t revolutionary; he focused his efforts most on reforms he knew to be absolutely essential.
He proposed a reorganization of the regulation and non-regulation Indian provinces and presidencies, into a more streamlined two-tiered system of Provinces and Presidencies. Districts were reorganized and several of the unwieldy, larger districts were broken down into smaller, more manageable ones. He pushed for the expansion of the Indian Civil Service.
He introduced the concept of a Provincial Civil Service to be staffed by natives who would be subordinate to the British administrators. Provincial civil servants could only be promoted to the rank of a District Administrator, and in later reforms to the rank of a Zonal administrator. These native administrators would be the beginning of the process of including more natives in the administration of the sub-continent. To further facilitate the administration of the subcontinent, he introduced a new hierarchy wherein the districts (called division in the three Presidencies) and the sub-divisions within were incorporated into ranges comprised of 3-4 districts and the ranges themselves into zones which comprised of 2-3 divisions each. A number of ranges were then incorporated into a province. The administration of the Princely states through the ‘agencies’ were left unchanged so as to not antagonize the remnants of the nobility in the sub-continent.
To assuage any worries among the British civil servants about the inclusions of natives in the bureaucracy, Lord Lorne proposed the establishment of a Pay Commission which would routinely evaluate the pay scales of the British civil servants and raise salaries accordingly.
Additionally later reforms under Lord Hardinge separated the Indian Civil Service into the Indian Administrative Service and the Indian Police Service. Later several more administrative services were introduced, like the Indian Forestry Service, etc., which helped the British with the Herculean task of running the sub-continent.
Under General Gordon’s advice the Governor-General Lorne also introduced the idea of recruiting the princes and nobles of the various princely states into the British Indian Army to deal with the shortage of Junior Commissioned Officers in the expanding British Indian Army to deal with its troop commitments abroad.
He also laid down the standard for educational instructions in the sub-continent which became the precursor for the modern Council for Indian School Certificate Examinations. He promoted the opening up of schools in many of the smaller towns in the sub-continent.
Instead of concentrating upon more problematic issues of ensuring equal legal rights for the Indian natives and the British and the Anglo-Indians, as attempted by the previously shelved Illbert Bill, Lord Lorne pushed for streamlining and optimizing the administration of the subcontinent.
In the economic field Lord Lorne knew that going against the interests of the British Industrialist would be political suicide, so quietly left the policy of economic reforms undisturbed. He did however reform several pre-1858 laws which made travel in the sub-continent problematic for the natives and as such inadvertently started a small trickle of impoverished farmers to the towns from the countryside.
His cautious drafting of the bill, combined with the support of the aging but still influential Lord Ripon, led it to being passed with little political maneuvering in British Parliament in 1898.
All this importance given to the sub-continent in the Parliament naturally caught the attention of the British public, and a certain British nobleman in particular.
When his term ended thousands, Indian and British alike, flocked to the Bombay Harbor to bid the
much-admired viceroy farewell.
The year 1900 rung in the new century and with it to the sub-continent came a new Governor-general. He was the same man who had paid a good deal of attention to the discussion of the reforms in the Parliament since his visit to meet his sister in the sub-continent in 1899. He had since expressed his desired to obtain the Governor-generalship of British India and given his experience as the Governor-General of Canada and his public stature he was granted the same little public fuss in the political circles
His name was Arthur William Patrick Albert, Duke of Connaught and Strathearn. Or as he was more commonly known, Prince Arthur, the second youngest son of Prince-Consort Albert and Empress Victoria.
With the approval from the Parliament Lord Lorne set about implementing the “British India Administration Act of 1899’, popularly known as the Lorne Reforms.
Lord Lorne was not a starry eyed reformer; he was much of a realist and had a proven record of being a capable political negotiator. He also had a very clear idea of what resources he had at hand in the sub-continent and more importantly what could be agreed upon by the British Parliament. While Empress Victoria’s support had given him a good deal of political capital it was never a blank check.
So he decided to concentrate on those policy decisions he knew could be passed, and a bit more for the policy breathing space that he knew he would need the most in the following negotiations.
He laid out a very meticulously crafted plan, which composed of several steps. His first step after obtaining Her Majesty’s permission in June of 1896 was to set up a committee at each of the three Presidencies and two more for the Princely States and the non-Presidency provinces. He hand-picked the members of each of the committee, taking care to not completely exclude the natives from the committees. He was careful to exclude most of the more ‘radical’ proponents of reform from the committees so as to avoid any ‘complications’ in their functioning.
The work of these 5 committees was to travel the length and breadth of their respective concerns and figure out how basically to improve the administration of the sub-continent. The committees were supposed to submit a report by the winter of 1897. The committees officially had the seemingly innocuous task of merely tabulating reports about government efficiency. Given Lord Lorne’s reputation as quite the penny-pincher when it came to waste in government spending, it wasn’t all that much of a surprise.
Soon after the reports were submitted in early spring of 1898, Lord Lorne set about drafting the ‘British India Administration Bill’ or the ‘Raj Bill as it was known at that time.
His proposals weren’t revolutionary; he focused his efforts most on reforms he knew to be absolutely essential.
He proposed a reorganization of the regulation and non-regulation Indian provinces and presidencies, into a more streamlined two-tiered system of Provinces and Presidencies. Districts were reorganized and several of the unwieldy, larger districts were broken down into smaller, more manageable ones. He pushed for the expansion of the Indian Civil Service.
He introduced the concept of a Provincial Civil Service to be staffed by natives who would be subordinate to the British administrators. Provincial civil servants could only be promoted to the rank of a District Administrator, and in later reforms to the rank of a Zonal administrator. These native administrators would be the beginning of the process of including more natives in the administration of the sub-continent. To further facilitate the administration of the subcontinent, he introduced a new hierarchy wherein the districts (called division in the three Presidencies) and the sub-divisions within were incorporated into ranges comprised of 3-4 districts and the ranges themselves into zones which comprised of 2-3 divisions each. A number of ranges were then incorporated into a province. The administration of the Princely states through the ‘agencies’ were left unchanged so as to not antagonize the remnants of the nobility in the sub-continent.
To assuage any worries among the British civil servants about the inclusions of natives in the bureaucracy, Lord Lorne proposed the establishment of a Pay Commission which would routinely evaluate the pay scales of the British civil servants and raise salaries accordingly.
Additionally later reforms under Lord Hardinge separated the Indian Civil Service into the Indian Administrative Service and the Indian Police Service. Later several more administrative services were introduced, like the Indian Forestry Service, etc., which helped the British with the Herculean task of running the sub-continent.
Under General Gordon’s advice the Governor-General Lorne also introduced the idea of recruiting the princes and nobles of the various princely states into the British Indian Army to deal with the shortage of Junior Commissioned Officers in the expanding British Indian Army to deal with its troop commitments abroad.
He also laid down the standard for educational instructions in the sub-continent which became the precursor for the modern Council for Indian School Certificate Examinations. He promoted the opening up of schools in many of the smaller towns in the sub-continent.
Instead of concentrating upon more problematic issues of ensuring equal legal rights for the Indian natives and the British and the Anglo-Indians, as attempted by the previously shelved Illbert Bill, Lord Lorne pushed for streamlining and optimizing the administration of the subcontinent.
In the economic field Lord Lorne knew that going against the interests of the British Industrialist would be political suicide, so quietly left the policy of economic reforms undisturbed. He did however reform several pre-1858 laws which made travel in the sub-continent problematic for the natives and as such inadvertently started a small trickle of impoverished farmers to the towns from the countryside.
His cautious drafting of the bill, combined with the support of the aging but still influential Lord Ripon, led it to being passed with little political maneuvering in British Parliament in 1898.
All this importance given to the sub-continent in the Parliament naturally caught the attention of the British public, and a certain British nobleman in particular.
When his term ended thousands, Indian and British alike, flocked to the Bombay Harbor to bid the
much-admired viceroy farewell.
The year 1900 rung in the new century and with it to the sub-continent came a new Governor-general. He was the same man who had paid a good deal of attention to the discussion of the reforms in the Parliament since his visit to meet his sister in the sub-continent in 1899. He had since expressed his desired to obtain the Governor-generalship of British India and given his experience as the Governor-General of Canada and his public stature he was granted the same little public fuss in the political circles
His name was Arthur William Patrick Albert, Duke of Connaught and Strathearn. Or as he was more commonly known, Prince Arthur, the second youngest son of Prince-Consort Albert and Empress Victoria.
An article within the book India and the Durbar, of 1911, advocated the creation of a Prince Regent of India.
According to the Times (which wrote the article), he was to be a member of the Royal house and assume the ceremonial duties of the Viceroy, while the Viceroy was to become more of a Prime Ministerial figure.
I suppose in a way, this is the closest we'll get to that proposal.
According to the Times (which wrote the article), he was to be a member of the Royal house and assume the ceremonial duties of the Viceroy, while the Viceroy was to become more of a Prime Ministerial figure.
I suppose in a way, this is the closest we'll get to that proposal.
Replies
@Jonathan Edelstein
Yes the Illbert Bill hysteria was avoided and as such it had three effects in the short term.
The British and Anglo-Indians in the sub-continent aren't all that hostile to reforms as reforms are perceived as less of a threat to their privileged status, social political, economic, legal, etc. So instead of OTL were they were hostile to almost all reforms, ITTL they are a much more accommodating to reforms as long as it does not infringe on their privileges excessively. Basically they have a less of a siege mentality they had OTL vis-a-vis reforms.
Secondly, Lord Ripon who was marginalized OTL post the Illbert Bill shenanigans avoids a lot of the bad PR and retains more of his political influence back home than OTL. His influence is further aided by the early demise of his predecessor Lord Lytton, the previous more conservative Viceroy of India and a political counterweight to a more weakened Lord Ripon.
Thirdly, the most important effect of the whole debacle of the Illbert Bill was the emergence of an organised and politically well coordinated and effective Indian National Congress. The native and British people who supported Illbert Bill gained a lot of experience in how to organize a political campaign from their antagonists in the anti-reform British and Anglo-Indian camp.
So in short i reduced the threat perception by the ant-reform camp in India, thus weakening their stranglehold on the process of reforms in the sub-continent. It resulted in the weakening of the pro-reform camp in the short term, but in the long term the pro-reform camp will benefit as the opposition won't be as organised when the 'Lorne reforms' of my TL come about.
One more thing i want to point out. Today India is a nation of billions. It has one of the largest and fastest growing middle class populations in the world. Our media, i.e., our news, movies and TV shows, are often openly liberal in their ideas. But in the previous election, the largest democratic elections in the history of mankind we elected perhaps one of the most reactionary and conservative governments possible. How is it that a land so clearly depicted by its media as a land of liberal minded folk vote in such a conservative government. It is because of a disconnection of the Liberal elite who control the media in India from the common folk.
I think it is much more important to reconcile with the lower class than with the upper class. You see the lower class out numbers the upper class by a factor of almost a couple of hundred thousand to one. The reason the independence movement kicked off the way it did from the 1910-1920s on wards was because of a discontentment the common folk felt with the British administration back then.
And if you think about it, the reasons the common folk were dissatisfied with British rule were a lot more pertinent than the reasons why the elites were. To put it in simple words, the elites were really truly angry with the British because they weren't treated as equals by the British, as in people did not have the same rights, the same avenues for advancement in their careers, etc. OTH the common folk were angry because they were exploited to the point of literally starving to death.
So yeah reconciling with the demands of the common folk was a lot more important than listening to some self-important preachy native elite cry murder over not being treated equally in the Victorian Era. I guess they never got the memo; its the Victorian Era, nobody gives a shit!
Also some of the native pro-reform advocates were more perceptive of the needs of the common folk and as such were genuinely concerned with the reforms which would help all the Indians regardless of socio-economic status. They really wanted to bring about reforms that would really help the people who needed reforms the most, i.e., the millions of impoverished Indians for whom the continuation of status quo did not mean the absence of a cushy bureaucratic post, with its bells and whistles. For them the continuation of the staus quo meant death. Just another statistic in the number of Indians who died of famine in the late-19th and early 20th century.
It is due this lack of attention to the really important stuff where reforms were needed that the Raj failed in the sub-continent.
The 'radical' portion of the pro-independence camp was quickly able to channel this discontentment into equating independence with better governance. Given the abysmal record of governance of the sub-continent post-independence i highly doubt it was a wise decision to put the reins in the hands of the people we did in OTL. As such i believe that any political system emerging in ATL will have to exclude such men from anywhere near any political power.
I am glad you enjoy this TL! Thank you for adding to the discussion!
@badshah
Interesting. Do you have a link to it somewhere?
I don't think it will be a wise idea to move into that kind of a system of administration so soon. It feel a bit shoved in in terms of the TL. i would prefer the rate of reforms to be something believable and manageable than a full on wank.
As for political representation, India needs a large educated class before any form of representative government can function. And the best way to ensure that is to push for education reforms and some economic reforms instead of focusing upon ensuring political rights for people who frankly had little idea of what to do with their enfranchisement. I agree that their inability it was due to no fault of their own. It was rather due to lack a of political awareness and awareness of their rights and duties due a to lack of literacy.
@Jonathan Edelstein
Yes the Illbert Bill hysteria was avoided and as such it had three effects in the short term.
The British and Anglo-Indians in the sub-continent aren't all that hostile to reforms as reforms are perceived as less of a threat to their privileged status, social political, economic, legal, etc. So instead of OTL were they were hostile to almost all reforms, ITTL they are a much more accommodating to reforms as long as it does not infringe on their privileges excessively. Basically they have a less of a siege mentality they had OTL vis-a-vis reforms.
Secondly, Lord Ripon who was marginalized OTL post the Illbert Bill shenanigans avoids a lot of the bad PR and retains more of his political influence back home than OTL. His influence is further aided by the early demise of his predecessor Lord Lytton, the previous more conservative Viceroy of India and a political counterweight to a more weakened Lord Ripon.
Thirdly, the most important effect of the whole debacle of the Illbert Bill was the emergence of an organised and politically well coordinated and effective Indian National Congress. The native and British people who supported Illbert Bill gained a lot of experience in how to organize a political campaign from their antagonists in the anti-reform British and Anglo-Indian camp.
So in short i reduced the threat perception by the ant-reform camp in India, thus weakening their stranglehold on the process of reforms in the sub-continent. It resulted in the weakening of the pro-reform camp in the short term, but in the long term the pro-reform camp will benefit as the opposition won't be as organised when the 'Lorne reforms' of my TL come about.
One more thing i want to point out. Today India is a nation of billions. It has one of the largest and fastest growing middle class populations in the world. Our media, i.e., our news, movies and TV shows, are often openly liberal in their ideas. But in the previous election, the largest democratic elections in the history of mankind we elected perhaps one of the most reactionary and conservative governments possible. How is it that a land so clearly depicted by its media as a land of liberal minded folk vote in such a conservative government. It is because of a disconnection of the Liberal elite who control the media in India from the common folk.
I think it is much more important to reconcile with the lower class than with the upper class. You see the lower class out numbers the upper class by a factor of almost a couple of hundred thousand to one. The reason the independence movement kicked off the way it did from the 1910-1920s on wards was because of a discontentment the common folk felt with the British administration back then.
And if you think about it, the reasons the common folk were dissatisfied with British rule were a lot more pertinent than the reasons why the elites were. To put it in simple words, the elites were really truly angry with the British because they weren't treated as equals by the British, as in people did not have the same rights, the same avenues for advancement in their careers, etc. OTH the common folk were angry because they were exploited to the point of literally starving to death.
So yeah reconciling with the demands of the common folk was a lot more important than listening to some self-important preachy native elite cry murder over not being treated equally in the Victorian Era. I guess they never got the memo; its the Victorian Era, nobody gives a shit!
Also some of the native pro-reform advocates were more perceptive of the needs of the common folk and as such were genuinely concerned with the reforms which would help all the Indians regardless of socio-economic status. They really wanted to bring about reforms that would really help the people who needed reforms the most, i.e., the millions of impoverished Indians for whom the continuation of status quo did not mean the absence of a cushy bureaucratic post, with its bells and whistles. For them the continuation of the staus quo meant death. Just another statistic in the number of Indians who died of famine in the late-19th and early 20th century.
It is due this lack of attention to the really important stuff where reforms were needed that the Raj failed in the sub-continent.
The 'radical' portion of the pro-independence camp was quickly able to channel this discontentment into equating independence with better governance. Given the abysmal record of governance of the sub-continent post-independence i highly doubt it was a wise decision to put the reins in the hands of the people we did in OTL. As such i believe that any political system emerging in ATL will have to exclude such men from anywhere near any political power.
I am glad you enjoy this TL! Thank you for adding to the discussion!
@badshah
Interesting. Do you have a link to it somewhere?
I don't think it will be a wise idea to move into that kind of a system of administration so soon. It feel a bit shoved in in terms of the TL. i would prefer the rate of reforms to be something believable and manageable than a full on wank.
As for political representation, India needs a large educated class before any form of representative government can function. And the best way to ensure that is to push for education reforms and some economic reforms instead of focusing upon ensuring political rights for people who frankly had little idea of what to do with their enfranchisement. I agree that their inability it was due to no fault of their own. It was rather due to lack a of political awareness and awareness of their rights and duties due a to lack of literacy.
It's not an online source, I'm afraid.
Here's a quote, though:
"It is admitted by all who know the facts that the Viceroy has a load which is too heavy for one man." (17)
"What the Indians greatly desire is that one of the Royal House should be appointed Prince Regent of India. He would have no political functions, and the Viceroy, as Prime Minister of India, appointed for five years, would be responsible to the British Cabinet."(17)
Here's a quote, though:
"It is admitted by all who know the facts that the Viceroy has a load which is too heavy for one man." (17)
"What the Indians greatly desire is that one of the Royal House should be appointed Prince Regent of India. He would have no political functions, and the Viceroy, as Prime Minister of India, appointed for five years, would be responsible to the British Cabinet."(17)
Hmm, sounds very interesting, tempting even. This will give the royals an exposure to India and its problems they otherwise lacked. I mean they knew India was poor and impoverished, but seeing it first hand over their term as the Prince Regent was a different matter altogether. It will definitely shape their opinion in the discussion of policy vis-a-vis the parliament.
I have no illusions of the limitation of the powers of the British royals in the matters of British politics. But will be some extra political value of a widely respected British royal supporting reforms in India vs a run of the mill British radical liberal MP.
The question is how do we bring about such a change? Will Prince Arthur bring about such a change? Prince Arthur was not the most influential member of the Royal family but he did know others who were, most notably his eldest brother the to be King-Emperor Edward VII, or his nephew, the to be George V. The question remains how close he was to either of them to actually let his opinion influence them.
BTW as for the royals. Does Albert Victor, second in line to the throne after Edward VII, survive in 1894? He had pneumonia and while it was common back then its etiological reasons, notably exposure, etc., can be easily butterflied away by a minor PoD a decade earlier as in this TL. I should know; i am a Medical student a year from my license. Wonder what kind of a king Albert Victor would have been.
Can anyone help me with that?
Sincerely,
Kalki
Saphroneth
Banned
Oh btw in hind sight i realize making Jack the Ripper the King of Great Britain and Ireland may not be the brightest idea.
Eh? Jack the Ripper?
There was a theory, kind of dis-proven now, that Albert Victor, second in line to the British throne was somehow either directly responsible for the murders or had them done so as to cover up his 'indiscretions' with certain women of 'questionable character' in Whitechapel.
The question is whether we bring him to the throne or not. Does he survive the 1889-1890 Flu 'pandemic'. (It wasn't much of a pandemic compared to its successor, the Spanish Flu)
Oh btw in hind sight i realize making Jack the Ripper the King of Great Britain and Ireland may not be the brightest idea.
I like your POD, making Jack the Ripper King and Emperor of the Empire may reconcile the Indians to longer rule from London. Fear will bring the local systems into line.