A Light Shines East: The World of a Christian Persia

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Aluma

Aluma

Merovingian said:
Sorry if the inclusion of An Lushan made you nauseous
Click to expand...
Dont be sorry! I liked the chapter a lot, my dislike is towards his figure only
I think an easy way to explain it would be this not necessarily entirely accurate copypasta about his character telling a bit about how he rose IOTL
Fun facts about An Lushan:
-He was the son of a sorceress and his name meant "war"
-He disobeyed his commander changing into a enemy army and got crushed
-He would've been executed for this but his superior liked him so the decision was given to the Emperor
-He met the Emperor and forgot to bow to his son and justified it saying he was a barbarian so he didnt know it any better
-The Emperor found this adorable
-He then bowed also to the Empress, which confused the Emperor
-He said it was because barbarians kneeled to mom before dad, which the Emperor also found adorable
-In fact the Emperor liked him so much that instead of executing him he adopted him and married him to his daughter
-When the Emperor died An Lushan thought his "brother" the prince who's now the new Emperor would execute him for the one time he forgot to bow to him
-The new Emperor actually wanted to make him his chancellor
-To do that the Emperor sent a eunuch to test his character to see if he was worthy being chancellor
-He bribed the Eunuch
-The new Emperor thought the eunuch was saying bullshit, killed him and sent another to test his adopted "brother" wholeheartedly believing his character
-He bribed the other eunuch too
-The Emperor then asked him to come to the capital so they could talk because surely those eunuchs were lying and he could make him his chancellor
-An Lushan panicked so badly he went to hide in his province not daring to leave his house and not going even to celebrations and burials where the Emperor would be
-The Emperor then appointed his rival who wanted him to answer for his bribery as chancellor, which he thought confirmed that the Emperor wanted to kill him
-He then led a army to siege the capital so he could capture the Emperor and make his "brother" be friends with him again once he executed his rival chancellor
-His rival used this as proof he wanted to usurp the throne all along and they had his whole family executed
-He understandably lost it when his family got executed so he tried to usurp the throne for real by proclaming his own dynasty
-He lost because the Sieg of Suiyang took too long giving time for the Tang to recover and was it's own level of mind-fuckery, just search the meme "strategic Tang Victory"
-He was killed by his own son who sent an assassin to stab him
-He was too obese to grab his sword or even move, also blind, so the assassin just akwardly stabbed him once and his organs popped out like a fart
- Did I say he was obese? I mean it, he apparently crushed a horse to death once with his ass trying to ride it
-Anyways his last words were "THERE'S A THIEF IN MY HOUSE" or "THIS IS A THIEVE FROM MY OWN HOUSEHOLD"
-The later is more likely meaning he knew it was his son who did it but the former is funnier because I like to imagine him thinking he was being randomly muggled
-After his death and defeat of his dynasty he actually received a traditional Tang burial given to a royal prince cause they were more disappointed with him than anything else
-His post-death name given by the Emperor simply meant "unthinking" because of his recklessness, but I personally prefer to translate it as "stupid"

Seriously it was the stupidest war ever

Also it killed a higher percentage of the human population than any other conflict in history, roughly 1/6 of the global population in the highest estimates
Merovingian said:
All that really matters that a Central Asia jiedushi rebels against the Tang
Click to expand...
Indeed, and thats perfect plausible and I understand you needed that to happen for the rest of the chinese storyline to flow accordingly
Merovingian said:
This isn’t the same Wei that Mulan came from(that already happened)
Click to expand...
I know, her Wei was from the 6th century if Im not mistaken, had to research it(or more specifically the Liang Dynasty) for a TL I wanted to make
I was just pointing out how amusing it would be for a jurchen Wei to have a manchu analogue of Mulan
Merovingian said:
That said, this Wei sees itself as a sort of successor to the previous Wei not only because of the name but also because they are both northern-based dynasties that failed to control the south and had Central Asian influences
Click to expand...
Thats cool!
Merovingian said:
If it makes more since to come up with an entirely new dynastic name, I will, but I’m not all that familiar with the customs surrounding Chinese dynasty names.
Click to expand...
Yeah I have trouble coming up with them too even though chinese history is one of my special interests
Merovingian said:
The Uyghurs and Tibetans will survive in some form, although I’m not quite sure what. As for China falling like Rome, I’m honestly surprised that didn’t happen IOTL, since China’s basically a unique cultural sphere in its own right and “Chinese” isn’t so much a language as a whole language family. China was divided IOTL between the Song in the south and Jurchen Jin in the north around this time, so there’s precedent to this. ITTL, they just never reunify.
Click to expand...
Great! I look forward to see more of them
As for China & Rome, yeah its something very curious about OTL in how they were analogous to one another and could have ended similarly
 

Merovingian

Aluma said:
Fun facts about An Lushan:
-He was the son of a sorceress and his name meant "war"
-He disobeyed his commander changing into a enemy army and got crushed
-He would've been executed for this but his superior liked him so the decision was given to the Emperor
-He met the Emperor and forgot to bow to his son and justified it saying he was a barbarian so he didnt know it any better
-The Emperor found this adorable
-He then bowed also to the Empress, which confused the Emperor
-He said it was because barbarians kneeled to mom before dad, which the Emperor also found adorable
-In fact the Emperor liked him so much that instead of executing him he adopted him and married him to his daughter
-When the Emperor died An Lushan thought his "brother" the prince who's now the new Emperor would execute him for the one time he forgot to bow to him
-The new Emperor actually wanted to make him his chancellor
-To do that the Emperor sent a eunuch to test his character to see if he was worthy being chancellor
-He bribed the Eunuch
-The new Emperor thought the eunuch was saying bullshit, killed him and sent another to test his adopted "brother" wholeheartedly believing his character
-He bribed the other eunuch too
-The Emperor then asked him to come to the capital so they could talk because surely those eunuchs were lying and he could make him his chancellor
-An Lushan panicked so badly he went to hide in his province not daring to leave his house and not going even to celebrations and burials where the Emperor would be
-The Emperor then appointed his rival who wanted him to answer for his bribery as chancellor, which he thought confirmed that the Emperor wanted to kill him
-He then led a army to siege the capital so he could capture the Emperor and make his "brother" be friends with him again once he executed his rival chancellor
-His rival used this as proof he wanted to usurp the throne all along and they had his whole family executed
-He understandably lost it when his family got executed so he tried to usurp the throne for real by proclaming his own dynasty
-He lost because the Sieg of Suiyang took too long giving time for the Tang to recover and was it's own level of mind-fuckery, just search the meme "strategic Tang Victory"
-He was killed by his own son who sent an assassin to stab him
-He was too obese to grab his sword or even move, also blind, so the assassin just akwardly stabbed him once and his organs popped out like a fart
- Did I say he was obese? I mean it, he apparently crushed a horse to death once with his ass trying to ride it
-Anyways his last words were "THERE'S A THIEF IN MY HOUSE" or "THIS IS A THIEVE FROM MY OWN HOUSEHOLD"
-The later is more likely meaning he knew it was his son who did it but the former is funnier because I like to imagine him thinking he was being randomly muggled
-After his death and defeat of his dynasty he actually received a traditional Tang burial given to a royal prince cause they were more disappointed with him than anything else
-His post-death name given by the Emperor simply meant "unthinking" because of his recklessness, but I personally prefer to translate it as "stupid"
Click to expand...
Okay, now I understand your dislike for An Lushan. You called him “Asian Cortez”, but whatever…that…was makes Cortez’ life seem simple and rational by comparison. If whatever this is didn’t happen IOTL, I’d call it ASB.
 
Kurd Gossemer

Kurd Gossemer

Aluma said:
Dont be sorry! I liked the chapter a lot, my dislike is towards his figure only
I think an easy way to explain it would be this not necessarily entirely accurate copypasta about his character telling a bit about how he rose IOTL
Fun facts about An Lushan:
-He was the son of a sorceress and his name meant "war"
-He disobeyed his commander changing into a enemy army and got crushed
-He would've been executed for this but his superior liked him so the decision was given to the Emperor
-He met the Emperor and forgot to bow to his son and justified it saying he was a barbarian so he didnt know it any better
-The Emperor found this adorable
-He then bowed also to the Empress, which confused the Emperor
-He said it was because barbarians kneeled to mom before dad, which the Emperor also found adorable
-In fact the Emperor liked him so much that instead of executing him he adopted him and married him to his daughter
-When the Emperor died An Lushan thought his "brother" the prince who's now the new Emperor would execute him for the one time he forgot to bow to him
-The new Emperor actually wanted to make him his chancellor
-To do that the Emperor sent a eunuch to test his character to see if he was worthy being chancellor
-He bribed the Eunuch
-The new Emperor thought the eunuch was saying bullshit, killed him and sent another to test his adopted "brother" wholeheartedly believing his character
-He bribed the other eunuch too
-The Emperor then asked him to come to the capital so they could talk because surely those eunuchs were lying and he could make him his chancellor
-An Lushan panicked so badly he went to hide in his province not daring to leave his house and not going even to celebrations and burials where the Emperor would be
-The Emperor then appointed his rival who wanted him to answer for his bribery as chancellor, which he thought confirmed that the Emperor wanted to kill him
-He then led a army to siege the capital so he could capture the Emperor and make his "brother" be friends with him again once he executed his rival chancellor
-His rival used this as proof he wanted to usurp the throne all along and they had his whole family executed
-He understandably lost it when his family got executed so he tried to usurp the throne for real by proclaming his own dynasty
-He lost because the Sieg of Suiyang took too long giving time for the Tang to recover and was it's own level of mind-fuckery, just search the meme "strategic Tang Victory"
-He was killed by his own son who sent an assassin to stab him
-He was too obese to grab his sword or even move, also blind, so the assassin just akwardly stabbed him once and his organs popped out like a fart
- Did I say he was obese? I mean it, he apparently crushed a horse to death once with his ass trying to ride it
-Anyways his last words were "THERE'S A THIEF IN MY HOUSE" or "THIS IS A THIEVE FROM MY OWN HOUSEHOLD"
-The later is more likely meaning he knew it was his son who did it but the former is funnier because I like to imagine him thinking he was being randomly muggled
-After his death and defeat of his dynasty he actually received a traditional Tang burial given to a royal prince cause they were more disappointed with him than anything else
-His post-death name given by the Emperor simply meant "unthinking" because of his recklessness, but I personally prefer to translate it as "stupid"

Seriously it was the stupidest war ever

Also it killed a higher percentage of the human population than any other conflict in history, roughly 1/6 of the global population in the highest estimates

Indeed, and thats perfect plausible and I understand you needed that to happen for the rest of the chinese storyline to flow accordingly

I know, her Wei was from the 6th century if Im not mistaken, had to research it(or more specifically the Liang Dynasty) for a TL I wanted to make
I was just pointing out how amusing it would be for a jurchen Wei to have a manchu analogue of Mulan

Thats cool!

Yeah I have trouble coming up with them too even though chinese history is one of my special interests

Great! I look forward to see more of them
As for China & Rome, yeah its something very curious about OTL in how they were analogous to one another and could have ended similarly
Click to expand...
Living Meme tier guy tbh, the fact people don't know more about him is a crime
 
Gwyndolin

Gwyndolin

An Lushan is so interesting it should be mandatory to never butterfly him away, forcing the unfortunate new states born from the butterflies to deal with him anyway.
 
Aluma

Aluma

Gwyndolin said:
An Lushan is so interesting it should be mandatory to never butterfly him away, forcing the unfortunate new states born from the butterflies to deal with him anyway.
Click to expand...
Like he's a temporal constant

Kinda like how Napoleon pops up regardless of POD to wank France or whatever other nation he so happens to be in
 
Gwyndolin

Gwyndolin

danteheadman said:
Muhammad, An Lushan, and Napoleon: fixed points in alternate history spacetime ready to change the world
Click to expand...
An Lushan I get for the memes. Napoleon I don’t really get, and Muhammad and Jesus I think just keep getting ignored by writer butterflies because the effect they had on the world is so outsized that just constructing a world where they never existed becomes a herculean task in and of itself.
 
Aluma

Aluma

Gwyndolin said:
Napoleon I don’t really get
Click to expand...
Napoleon is people wanting to see what his alt-version will do to the alt-nation he's put in charge of like how Revolutionary France turned into Napoleonic France

Kinda like how Hitler sometimes pops up in another country when realistically he would never have rose to power without the circunstances that led to it

Difference being that in Napoleon's case he's more of a monarchic militarist wank instead of a genocidal racist one, so he's used more

Im surprised people dont do the same with Augustus for the same reason, but I guess its because he's less popular than Nappy and overshadowed by his uncle but they still are a staple of roman TLs regardless of the butterflies
 
Europe After Rome
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    From “A Brief History of Europe” by Snorri Eriksson

    The fall of the Roman Empire represented a dramatic shift in the course that European history would take. The roads that once connected the empire were abandoned, trade decreased, war increased, and of the wisdom of the Romans was forgotten and lost to history[1]. At the same time, a new civilization would develop in the absence of the old empire. While Platonism thrived in the Greek east and Christianity would rise to prominence under the Sassanid Persian and Arab Empires, the Post-Roman west would embrace the philosophy of Stoicism. The Stoic philosophy developed by Zeno of Citium would undergo a Germanization as the Stoic texts were translated into Gothic and the Germanic pantheon incorporated into their ideas[2]. Specifically, the Germanic idea that the universe was fated to be destroyed in a cosmic battle fit well into the Stoic understanding of the universe.

    Gothic would supplant Latin as the lingua franca of Western Europe. Though the Gothic language would go extinct as Italy’s Gothic ruling class came to assimilate into the culture of their Romance-speaking subjects, it would remain the language of religion, literature, and philosophy throughout Western and Northern Europe and would be the main language used for communication between people of different national backgrounds. The primary writing system in Western Europe was(and is) the futhark runic alphabet, which rose to prominence as the old Latin alphabet was gradually forgotten. To the north, the same processes applied. The Gallic Empire that broke away from the declining Romans was run by and for the Germanic tribes that dominated the Roman military and would eventually fall to the Germanic tribe known to the Romans as the Alemanni. The Alemanni would adopt numerous cultural features from the Goths in Italy, and would in turn spread them to the British Isles. The island of Great Britain was divided between the Germanic Anglo-Saxons who hugged the coast, the Celtic Britons who dominated much of the interior, and the Picts to the north. To the west in Ireland, the Goidels dominated.

    Even further north were the Norsemen of Scandinavia. The first Viking raids were against the British Isles, soon followed by Continental Europe. Despite their tendency towards piracy and raiding, the Norse shared the use of Germanic language and futhark runes with the continental Europeans, which made the transfusion of cultural ideas easier. Over time, the Norsemen would abandon their Viking ways and assimilate into the broader European culture. However, Norse Vikings would also expand westward, settling Iceland, Greenland, and Vinland and ultimately paving the way for the transfer of goods and ideas between the continents of Europe and Hesperia[3]. Further east, conflict would become increasingly common with the Slavic peoples of Eastern Europe. The Southern Slavs, known as “Sklavenoi” in Greek(where the name of the country “Sklavenia” derives), adopted Platonism from the Greeks, as did the Pannonia Gepids. Some Western Slavs, such as the Wends, would adopt Stoicism and other Germanic cultural norms, while the Eastern Slavs went for Apostolic Christianity. The Baltic tribes, particularly the Lithuanians, would shun any foreign religious influences for centuries to come.

    The old Roman Empire became heavily mythologized by the Post-Roman Europeans. Figures like Julius Caesar, Emperor Augustus, and especially Marcus Aurelius(revered for his Stoic beliefs) became the focus of exaggerated stories in which they slew monsters, associated with gods, and accomplished superhuman feats. An entirely new genre of “Roman stories”, or mythic tales set in the Roman past, often based on distantly remembered truth that had been exaggerated over the generations to be rendered almost entirely mythical. These stories defined how the people of Europe saw themselves and their place in the world. Rome had fallen, sure, but something else had risen in its absence.





    [1]Without the monks to write everything down, the decline of literacy after the fall of Rome is much worse, in some places akin to the earlier Bronze Age Collapse

    [2]The Germanic pantheon has gradually begun to supplant the Greco-Roman pantheon in Western Europe. The two have syncretized(i.e. Mercury and Odin, Thor and Jupiter, Tyr and Mithras) and the gods are generally considered to be the same but under different names, but in general Germanic culture is considered more prestigious.

    [3]North America
     
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