Happy and Glorious.

[Devolved]

Happy and Glorious

continued

February 11th 1947

Scheldt Estuary

Soviet troops had taken advantage of the ice to cross the frozen canals and brushing aside the small numbers of Allied troops still available and reached the Scheldt. With Antwerp under threat the Royal Navy arrived and the cruisers HMS Superb and Devonshire opened fire on the enemy. Destroyers also made short work of the small number of boats the Soviets were able to capture.

Eiffel Forest

The British had retreated all the way to the forest regions between Belgium and Germany and set up defensive positions in the Eiffel Forest. The pursuing Soviets were tired and hungry and made no attempt to press any attacks.

Turkey

T 34 tanks entered the outskirts of Istanbul and apart from Molotov cocktails faced little opposition. By this time most troops had fled the city and crossed the Bosphorous.

Sea of Japan

The US Navy sunk another submarine while destroyers shelled the East coast of Northern Korea.

TBC

 

[Tyg]

Soviet troops had taken advantage of the ice to cross the frozen canals and brushing aside the small numbers of Allied troops still available and reached the Scheldt.

If the Soviet Union is still in the war when the ice melts, and the spring is as wet as it was historically, there are going to be a lot of soldiers trapped or at least substantially slowed by swollen rivers.

 

[Devolved]

If the Soviet Union is still in the war when the ice melts, and the spring is as wet as it was historically, there are going to be a lot of soldiers trapped or at least substantially slowed by swollen rivers.

Agreed. The Soviets are already on their last legs. Only the lack of Allied ground forces is saving them from defeat right now.

 

[Devolved]

Happy and Glorious book one is now available on Smashwords.

I apologize for taking such a long time to get this thing done.

 

[usertron2020]

Happy and Glorious

continued

February 11th 1947

Scheldt Estuary

Soviet troops had taken advantage of the ice to cross the frozen canals and brushing aside the small numbers of Allied troops still available and reached the Scheldt. With Antwerp under threat the Royal Navy arrived and the cruisers HMS Superb and Devonshire opened fire on the enemy. Destroyers also made short work of the small number of boats the Soviets were able to capture.

OTL one of the problems the US Navy faced was a Pearl Harbor Syndrome in the US Congress forcing the USN to maintain large numbers of hulls from WWI despite their obsolescence (frex, the battleships) almost up to the Korean War. Ironically, ITTL, that would actually be an advantage with the USN being at a relatively far higher state of being (if not readiness) compared to other navies. OTOH, TTL doesn't have the madcap scrap drive that was in place OTL for the RN.

So my question is, what is the state of the Royal Navy in terms of forces with no Socialist Landslide in 1945 and WWIII happening in January 1946?

Agreed. The Soviets are already on their last legs. Only the lack of Allied ground forces is saving them from defeat right now.

Surely the French Army by now is getting up to serious numbers in terms of mobilizing their forces on the "Western Front"?

 

[Astrodragon]

OTL one of the problems the US Navy faced was a Pearl Harbor Syndrome in the US Congress forcing the USN to maintain large numbers of hulls from WWI despite their obsolescence (frex, the battleships) almost up to the Korean War. Ironically, ITTL, that would actually be an advantage with the USN being at a relatively far higher state of being (if not readiness) compared to other navies. OTOH, TTL doesn't have the madcap scrap drive that was in place OTL for the RN.

So my question is, what is the state of the Royal Navy in terms of forces with no Socialist Landslide in 1945 and WWIII happening in January 1946?



Surely the French Army by now is getting up to serious numbers in terms of mobilizing their forces on the "Western Front"?

Its very likely there would still be a lot of ships sent to the breakers; after 5+ years of war many older ships are simply worn out (think around 3 times the 'annual wear' of peacetime, more for some ships. Even some of the pre-war ships have been used so hard they are coming apart, like Illustrious for example - very little war damage was fixed properly.

The older BB's, the cruisers pre London, all the older destroyers. A lot of the less capable escorts like the Flower class probably got put in reserve pending scrapping.

Its not as if there is a need for a huge navy, even without the older ships the RN on its own can take out the Russian Navy. With the USN as well, its hardly a contest. To be honest, if it wasn't for the story Glorious would probably be at the breakers too...

 

[Tyg]

Its very likely there would still be a lot of ships sent to the breakers; after 5+ years of war many older ships are simply worn out (think around 3 times the 'annual wear' of peacetime, more for some ships. Even some of the pre-war ships have been used so hard they are coming apart, like Illustrious for example - very little war damage was fixed properly.

I wonder how that applies to landing craft and various specialized ships. Were enough kept potentially available such that amphibious landings in the current conflict would just be a matter of mobilizing the manpower?

 

[Devolved]

Its very likely there would still be a lot of ships sent to the breakers; after 5+ years of war many older ships are simply worn out (think around 3 times the 'annual wear' of peacetime, more for some ships. Even some of the pre-war ships have been used so hard they are coming apart, like Illustrious for example - very little war damage was fixed properly.

The older BB's, the cruisers pre London, all the older destroyers. A lot of the less capable escorts like the Flower class probably got put in reserve pending scrapping.

Its not as if there is a need for a huge navy, even without the older ships the RN on its own can take out the Russian Navy. With the USN as well, its hardly a contest. To be honest, if it wasn't for the story Glorious would probably be at the breakers too...

ITTL the war ended at the end of September but the Cold War began almost immediately.

On the eve of WW3 the paper strength of the Royal Navy was 9 battleships/battlecruisers, 9 Fleet carriers (including the Glorious), 11 Light carriers, 5 Escort carriers, 53 cruisers, 221 destroyers, 164 escorts and 103 submarines.

The reduction in RN strength since the war had consisted of the return of the trawlers to civilian use and the discarding of most Escort carriers and motor launches. The Monitors had also been withdrawn as well as 8 battleships and 1 battlecruiser ( the 4 R class, 4 Queen Elizabeths and the Repulse) and 3 carriers (Furious, Argus and Eagle). The Lend Lease American ships (mostly Escort carriers, DDE's and minesweepers) had been returned to America.

OTL the Furious didn't go to the breakers until 1948. The Glorious was a more capable ship and ITTL has a reputation second to none. With no Cold War it would have been laid up but with war seen as inevitable for much of 1946 many modern carriers had been sent for refits in 1946 to prepare for the future leaving the elderly Glorious still sailing around the Med.

As I mentioned earlier the Royal Navy under the Churchill government was almost as large as the more rapidly demobilized Americans by the end of 1946.

 

[Astrodragon]

I wonder how that applies to landing craft and various specialized ships. Were enough kept potentially available such that amphibious landings in the current conflict would just be a matter of mobilizing the manpower?

Actually most of the LST's were being used as transports all over the place...they weer found to be very useful! So they would all be available.

The smaller craft aren't needed unless you need to do an opposed landing, the LST's are better as you can go from a British port to a beach or port and unload.

 

[Astrodragon]

ITTL the war ended at the end of September but the Cold War began almost immediately.

On the eve of WW3 the paper strength of the Royal Navy was 9 battleships/battlecruisers, 9 Fleet carriers (including the Glorious), 11 Light carriers, 5 Escort carriers, 53 cruisers, 221 destroyers, 164 escorts and 103 submarines.

The reduction in RN strength since the war had consisted of the return of the trawlers to civilian use and the discarding of most Escort carriers and motor launches. The Monitors had also been withdrawn as well as 8 battleships and 1 battlecruiser ( the 4 R class, 4 Queen Elizabeths and the Repulse) and 3 carriers (Furious, Argus and Eagle). The Lend Lease American ships (mostly Escort carriers, DDE's and minesweepers) had been returned to America.

OTL the Furious didn't go to the breakers until 1948. The Glorious was a more capable ship and ITTL has a reputation second to none. With no Cold War it would have been laid up but with war seen as inevitable for much of 1946 many modern carriers had been sent for refits in 1946 to prepare for the future leaving the elderly Glorious still sailing around the Med.

As I mentioned earlier the Royal Navy under the Churchill government was almost as large as the more rapidly demobilized Americans by the end of 1946.

On paper, but there are a number of others ships that are, at best, limited. Illustrious never recovered from her heavy damage, the NelRods engineering was shot, and so on. But as I said earlier, it doesn't really matter, the Allies have overwhelming naval superiority just using the newer-built ships. Carriers are probably the only exception, as long as they can handle modern planes, they have, as it were, modern armament.

 

[Devolved]

On paper, but there are a number of others ships that are, at best, limited. Illustrious never recovered from her heavy damage, the NelRods engineering was shot, and so on. But as I said earlier, it doesn't really matter, the Allies have overwhelming naval superiority just using the newer-built ships. Carriers are probably the only exception, as long as they can handle modern planes, they have, as it were, modern armament.

I mentioned on paper precisely becuase of the reasons you said. A lot of ships are under refit or routine maintenance.

OTL the Nelson was still seaworthy enough to meet the Vanguard and escort it through the English Channel as it returned from Princess Elizabeth's tour of South Africa in 1947.

ITTL Illustrious didn't receive the final blow from a Kamikaze near miss so its condition isn't quite so bad. The ships in worst condition have already been laid up for disposal. Glorious remains in service because many fleet carriers were under post war refit. If there had been no war Glorious would be already be decommissioned.

 

[usertron2020]

If there had been no war Glorious would be already be decommissioned.

She's still living on borrowed time though. Her age and small size means she can only operate older types of aircraft that can't handle the fighters of the Red Air Force ITTL.

 

[Zheng He]

She's still living on borrowed time though. Her age and small size means she can only operate older types of aircraft that can't handle the fighters of the Red Air Force ITTL.

Can still be useful in certain situations in a permissive environment like the USN using escort carriers in Korea OTL.

 

[Paulo the Limey]

Just finished catching up on this, after stopping years ago due to issues with the authors stance on all things American. Glad to see this has mellowed somewhat, but still don't think it's that realistic. In my opinion Astrodragon has done a far better job of portraying the US in a timeline with a better British performance, embracing the idea that a rising tide raises all ships.

I won't be buying the books I'm afraid, nor recommending this thread to others.

 

[Devolved]

Just finished catching up on this, after stopping years ago due to issues with the authors stance on all things American. Glad to see this has mellowed somewhat, but still don't think it's that realistic. In my opinion Astrodragon has done a far better job of portraying the US in a timeline with a better British performance, embracing the idea that a rising tide raises all ships.

I won't be buying the books I'm afraid, nor recommending this thread to others.

Thanks for taking the time to catch up on the thread Paulo.

The book is very different from the thread. I'm sure those who bought it would agree.

 

[usertron2020]

Thanks for taking the time to catch up on the thread Paulo.

The book is very different from the thread. I'm sure those who bought it would agree.

Your first book ended before the matter Paulo raised became an acute issue. I'll withhold judgement until I see what happens in Book 2.

 

[Devolved]

Your first book ended before the matter Paulo raised became an acute issue. I'll withhold judgement until I see what happens in Book 2.

Book 2 is coming within the next few weeks.

 

[usertron2020]

Just one thing? Don't let your fans talk you into thinking that its all about Midway. Your TL's Midway was OK beyond handwaving the IJN's normal skyhigh attrition losses (heavy enemy AA, no armor, no self-sealing fuel tanks, poor self-preservation tactics, no program of air-sea-subsurface rescue for downed pilots, no rotations, absurd training regimen). Your biggest champions basically acted as if every critic from that moment forward were "murika-fuck yeah!" types, and claimed that all complaints were just disgruntled Americans crying over losing the Battle of Midway. That was, with perhaps one (now banned) exception, untrue.

It was what happened a few months after Midway in the Pacific where the wheels came off the wagon for believability (among other things) in the ATL. And why I'm still staying with this story. I want to see if the book is more workable. BTW? Do you know what Operation FS was? I didn't until last year. I wish I'd known earlier.

 

[Devolved]

Just one thing? Don't let your fans talk you into thinking that its all about Midway. Your TL's Midway was OK beyond handwaving the IJN's normal skyhigh attrition losses (heavy enemy AA, no armor, no self-sealing fuel tanks, poor self-preservation tactics, no program of air-sea-subsurface rescue for downed pilots, no rotations, absurd training regimen). Your biggest champions basically acted as if every critic from that moment forward were "murika-fuck yeah!" types, and claimed that all complaints were just disgruntled Americans crying over losing the Battle of Midway. That was, with perhaps one (now banned) exception, untrue.

It was what happened a few months after Midway in the Pacific where the wheels came off the wagon for believability (among other things) in the ATL. And why I'm still staying with this story. I want to see if the book is more workable. BTW? Do you know what Operation FS is? I didn't until last year. I wish I'd known earlier.

I didn't know of Operation FS by name but I did know the Japanese had plans to occupy the New Hebrides and New Caledonia if Port Moresby was taken.

As you know in the book the Japanese suffer a major defeat at Coral Sea and the Port Moresby convoy gets more or less massacred so they aren't going anywhere.

 

[Neala]

when are the books coming on amazon?