Zionism without Palestine
- Thread starter BrokenWings
- Start date
on what plant is Ukraine, Belarus, and Poland "central Europe"?
Poland is in Central Europe..
Parts of Ukraine and Belarus are in Central Europe.
What point does this have? You're just focusing on semantics.
Also, I never SAID they were in Central Europe, they were under the influence of (Drum-role) the Nazi regime. Which only serves my point.
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no those are a magical place called Eastern Europe.
but thanks this has been the single maddest conversation I've had on AH in some time.
Please, please tell me you're joking?
You have not refuted to my argument. In fact, you have not once, throughout this entire conversation, presented anything that actually refuted my point. Yet you're calling me mad?
Sir, you are historically ignorant.
You claimed they were Jewish Arabs, I proved otherwise. You claimed they were mostly Russians, I proved otherwise. Now, you're focusing on the meaning of Central Europe.
Sir, you have just re-defined madness.
P.S: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Europe
Really. I mean, really.
You both are talking past each other. Calm down. And please stop with the "you're historically ignorant" ad hominems, new member. Its not winning you style points.
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*sigh* only none of that happened, i said post-1948 a lot of the immigration was Arab Jewish, you never disproved that, you just said pre-1948 there weren't any Arab Jews, fair point, you then said that they only came because Nazism which is so silly it hurts my brain.
and you've been rude and attacking every one in this thread
also
how the UN defines Eastern Europe (red)
I'm calm, and I think I've been trying rather hard to figure out what he means.
*sigh* only none of that happened, i said post-1948 a lot of the immigration was Arab Jewish, you never disproved that, you just said pre-1948 there weren't any Arab Jews, fair point, you then said that they only came because Nazism which is so silly it hurts my brain.
and you've been rude and attacking every one in this thread
also
how the UN defines Eastern Europe (red)
Funny how that the way it technically is described by ONE organisation means that it is that way.
First off that was due to the Iron Curtain.
Second off, culturally speaking, Poland, Czechoslovakia, and Austria are part of Central Europe.
ONE definition means nothing.
Again. My point is that they FLED from NAZIS. This is approved by almost all sane human beings and Israel itself.
Also, you must have some serious mental issues. Don't attribute statements to me that I never made. I NEVER said Jewish Arabs came because of Nazism, they came because of the Jewish Exodus POST 1948. You're the one who stated that they were the ones who made the state of Israel. Which I refuted by telling you that the majority were all Europeans fleeing Nazism. Seriously, I must've stated that point 20 times.
Either you can't read, or you're just making things up as you go along to discredit me.
P.S: Germany in that shot is described as Western Europe. And again, my argument is that those areas were under Nazi influence. Do I really need to spell this out?
only you're giving the Nazi ahistorical power in the 1930s, in 1938 Poland supported the craving up of the Czechs, no one believed Germany was the master of Europe before they blitzed the rest of Europe, they left because Poland all by itself was a nasty Anti-Semitic country, the huge majority of Jews didn't leave because "hitler" they left because Eastern Europe sucked generally, you're reading back WWII onto the 1930s the Holocaust onto the 1930s people didn't know those would happen, had no idea, so some one in Poland would (at lest before the summer of 1939) have no reason to leave Poland due to Germany, at lest to do so would be seen as silly, they had lots of Polish reasons to leave.
.....
Oh my God.
You're telling me, that the mass murder and target of Jews by GERMANS is nothing compared to the anti-semitism in Russia..?
Please, just.
This statement is so ridiculous, it needs proof. Provide me a link. Just.
Ummm, you actually are very hard to decipher. How did you draw that conclusion based on what Black Angel stated?
only the mass murder started in 1942-43, not 1933, sure Germany in the 1930s was anti-Semitic very much so, but still the majority of Jews that left in the 1930s (and before) who made up the overwhelming majority of Israelis in 1948, where not German, didn't leave because of Germany, they left because their home nations Poland, Hungry, Russia, where anti-Semitic or generally hard places to live, they didn't have future site to see that their home lands in a few years would be over run with Nazis, how could they know? and why would what was going on in a different country be there reason for dropping everything and becoming settlers in a far away land?
again, that was in Germany, not Poland, not Hungry not Russia (well yes Russia, but different story) where the majority of Jews were coming from.
Yonatan
Banned
dude, please calm down.
the fifth Aliyah wave was the only wave with a large amount of German Jews in it, starting from 1929-1939. out of 280,000, only 70,000 were German Jews, the rest being Russians, eastern Europeans, and even from some Asian countries. the reasons for the fifth Aliyah's large number are numerous:
1) the 1929 economic crash. the economy of the Jewish settlement was booming as a result of the Aliyah wave and especially the amount of highly qualified personnel arriving. many institutes that would become founding stones of the State of Israel were founded in this period with capital brought with the recent immigration wave, which encouraged further immigration.
2) the new British High Commissioner (Arthur Grenfell Wauchope) who vastly increased immigration quotas in his term and was friendly with the Jewish Settlement.
3) the rise of antisemitisem in eastern Europe and the rise of the Nazis.
assuming #3 is the only reason, or even the main reason, vastly overestimates its importance. untill 1939 Jews in Poland had no reason to fear the Nazis, let alone further east.
Germany which in turn spread to Poland which in turn spread to the rest of Europe due to the rise of NAZISM.
Let me get this straight, they had no reason to fear the man who constantly made threats to invade and expand the Greater Germany? Plus with the appeasement going on, you'd think that they'd feel afraid.
Your argument in no way refutes mine. I see no discrepancy. European Jews from Europe fled to Palestine, and are the majority of the Jews in Israel now.
ok? so? you think people freely left German controlled Poland to go to British Palestine? you know an enemy of Germany's?
or do you think Polish Jews could see the future and knew the Nazis were coming and got out ahead of time over the 1930s? ok? so? you think people freely left German controlled Poland to go to British Palestine? you know an enemy of Germany's?
Let's see, Germany constantly made threats to Poland and constantly asked for the Danzig port, wanting to reunite Prussia with Germany, he also grabbed control of Czechoslovakia, Austria and most of Central Europe. Plus, the spread of the Nazism ideology in Europe was growing wasn't it? And Poland had a sizeable German minority.
Really, that argument is idiotic.
only thats totally not the case of Israeli Jews 50.2% are Mizrahi Jews and Sephardic Jews (i.e. coming from, or descended from Arab/Muslim countries) 2.2% are Beta Israel from Ethiopia, and 47.5% are Ashkenazi Jews, 20.9% of Israeli Jews are Russian (meaning they make up a huge part of the Ashkenazi) only 2.7% are German/Austrian