Delta Force
Banned
How would commercial and military aviation have evolved from the 1940s onwards without World War II?
Without WW2 the biggest and most advanced nation in Europe dominates aviation, Germany.
Coolness ensues.
And what aircearft were dominating world commercial markets in the late 30s? German 'express planes' such as the Do-17 and the HE-111? or work horses like the JU-52?
No - The American DC-2 and DC-3 and Lockheed Electras. The Martin and Sikorsky and Boeing Clippers. And the new planes that were coming Boeing StratoCruisers, DC-4s, etc.
The British would have been very active also, especially with flying boats to support the empire
So I believe there would have been much more diversity in commercial aviation without the effect of WWII
Military engines perhaps, but they were inefficient and thirsty, even when using rare metals to maximize engine life. I think that the civilian engines really have to wait for the late 1940s and the turbofan engine.Germany is way ahead with jet engines and I think had the densest air routes in the world in the 30s.
No - The American DC-2 and DC-3 and Lockheed Electras.
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And the new planes that were coming Boeing StratoCruisers, DC-4s, etc.
This. Read the archives of Flight magazine from the late thirties and its all Douglas, Lockheed and Boeing taking the big orders and setting the pace. Without the distraction of the luftwaffe maybe Heinkel and Junkers would have had a shot at being competetive but apart from in small aircraft everyone else in Europe was basically embarrassing themselves by building antiquated junk.
Not really, swept wings as a method of dealing with compressibility at high speeds was being already being researched in the 1930s with Dr. Adolf Busemann giving a public lecture and publishing a paper on it at the Volta Conference meeting in Rome in 1935.Aerodynamics takes a hit for a while. No swept wing for example.
When and how is WW2 averted?
WW2 built a huge number of airfields, trained huge number of pilots, and created a huge number of surplus cargo planes. You will see water based planes last longer. It will be costlier to establish airlines since you will need to build fields and train for staffs that IOTL were created by the militaries of the world. Might see Zeppelins hang on a bit longer, if you get Helium to Germans. Germans do a lot better in the civilian world. And over time, this gap disappears since we avoid the vast economic destruction of a major war.
Military engines perhaps, but they were inefficient and thirsty, even when using rare metals to maximize engine life. I think that the civilian engines really have to wait for the late 1940s and the turbofan engine.
Also if we don't have WW2 ITTL, how? The Luftwaffe built up Germanys airfield network and created a large number of pilots and 'air-mindedness' among the public, who would be largely too poor to make this happen. Without the Nazis do you still see Tempelhof airport become what it did?
I think air travel would still be close to OTL today even without WW2, but it would lag a bit until the world economy recovered from the Great Depression and potentially Nazi rule in Germany. As it was WW2 actually probably hurt air travel to some degree by diverting resources away from civilian air needs and of course diverting money away from civilian economic development that would have allowed greater public participation due to larger salaries enabling travel. The lack of WW2 would allow far quicker economic development and greater wealth in Europe, which would have driven air travel, while the US lags to a degree without the major cash infusions from Europe or need to develop their air infrastructure due to the war. That means fewer pilots for civilian air industry post-war, along with less infrastructure overall; in most of the ways that WW2 was horrible for Europe it was beneficial for the US, so it inverts their 1940s-50s history, as Europe isn't coming from a 'year zero', nor having to deal with the Cold War and having half of it controlled by the USSR, locking out trade, while the US is stuck with an insufficiently large public spending program that does not create the middle class like WW2 did (plus the GI Bill) and or have the elimination of global economic competition for a generation. The European imperial system doesn't break down and create an enormous 3rd world market for the US, nor does Japan fall into the US orbit; in fact the US then lacks the Cold War threat to continue its mobilization of money for spending for the public good (space race/education/great society/civil rights/women's rights).
This. Read the archives of Flight magazine from the late thirties and its all Douglas, Lockheed and Boeing taking the big orders and setting the pace. Without the distraction of the luftwaffe maybe Heinkel and Junkers would have had a shot at being competetive but apart from in small aircraft everyone else in Europe was basically embarrassing themselves by building antiquated junk.
The Ju90 with DB601 engines was better than the DC-3 and roughly comparable to the DC-4, but two years earlier. It also has upgrade potential to stay competitive and can offer upgraded variants as aeronautic research enables better versions. So the Europeans were catching up, but the question is whether there would be a Ju89 ITTL without WW2 to base the Ju90 on.
Yes I know ,but without the pressing need for speed their use would not be required quite so soon.Not really, swept wings as a method of dealing with compressibility at high speeds was being already being researched in the 1930s with Dr. Adolf Busemann giving a public lecture and publishing a paper on it at the Volta Conference meeting in Rome in 1935.
Yes I rebuild aircraft for a living ,been doing it for decadesAh right, I thought you were arguing that it would never come about at all not just be delayed.
Its three times the weight of the DC-3 with twice the number of engines, it damn well should be better - but it only managed 50% more passengers and less range.The Ju90 with DB601 engines was better than the DC-3 and roughly comparable to the DC-4, but two years earlier.