Your Fantasy US Constitution
- Thread starter LacheyS
- Start date
pacifichistorian
Banned
Amend: fair & equal for all candidates.
Investigaion & prosecution? That's Gestapo, especially in light of your over-broad injunction to surveil & educate. Big Brother is The Commish?
1st point, OK. 2d & 3d, no. Obey laws I think are unjust? Obey laws that are discriminatory? Would you make the Freedom Riders criminals by constitutional amendment? And what's the penalty for breaking the law of the Constitution? Isn't that tantamount to treason, & hence punishable by death?
So the Freedom Riders are traitors?Would you extend that to preventing TV networks from broadcasting election results from the East Coast before the polls close in Hawaii? (I would, tho by the time the 'net develops, it'd be pretty futile...)
What does that mean? Contrary to the public interest? To government policy? Harmful to the public? Would publishing The Pentagon Papers mean jail? How about Woodstein & Watergate? And must there be specific intent? What about publishing falsehoods with "absence of malice"? OK to publish rumors, so long as you've got a source or two who'll tell the same lie?
Amend: "Law-abiding shall be defined as not having committed a felony." Deny firearms to somebody for speeding tickets? Arms to include any bladed weapon (including but not limited to knife, sword, or axe), blunt weapon (including but not limited to mace or nunchaku), or firearm (excluding such firearms able to fire explosive projectiles, such as grenade launchers or bazookas, except among federally licenced collectors with special permits). Responsible citizen shall mean a citizen who has passed a federal firearm safety course at the hands of a recognized & registered instructor (OTL, these would include the likes of Bill Jordan & Jeff Cooper), & has thus obtained a licence to own; in addition, periodic qualification exams will be mandatory, to demonstrate continuing proficiency in the safe operation of firearms, beginning 2 years after licencing & every 2 years thereafter. Such licencing will extend to all classes of smallarms, excluding those capable of firing explosive projectiles, as already described. Furthermore, all law enforcement agencies shall issue concealed carry permits to such licenced individuals on application, after confirmation of possession of such licence, or in not less than four calendar days in any case. In addition, firearms education & safety classes will be taught in all schools, beginning in Grade 5.
Amend: such search protection shall not be modified to exclude personal transportation, nor passengers in such vehicles, unless suspect materials are clearly in plain sight before a search commences, & such can be demonstrated in a court of law; if this is challenged by any witness, even the defendant, the evidence gathered by such a search shall be ruled inadmissable.
Amend: Prosecution by one level of governent shall equally preclude prosecution by another. [/quote]
Amend: Any statement given following more than four hours of interrogation or six hours in police custody shall also be regarded as involuntary. (It's likely to amount to psychological coercion, even if no force is actually used. It's fairly common for false confessions to be recanted, with innocent people saying, "I'd have told them anything just to get them to stop.") Further, any statement by a minor, if given outside the presence of counsel, shall also be regarded as involuntary. (Teens are especially susceptible to this.)
Would you include expert testimony here?
This is opening the door to gossip & innuendo about the accused...
Amend: The prosecution shall provide all evidence in its possession to the defense. Failure to do so will constitute obstruction of justice; any and all officers of the district attorney's office or police department who participate in such action shall be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law by the National Police Commissioner or the Attorney General of the United States.
Amend: If an accused is convicted, the competence of the defense will be reviewed; if defense counsel is shown to have been negligent or incompetent, the conviction is set aside & a new trial commenced. No statement by the accused in the previous proceding shall be admissable in the subsequent.
Amend: The government shall not take private property of one citizen for the enrichment of another, or for the enrichment of a private company or business enterprise, nor for a government enterprise in partnership with a private firm.
I'm not sure whether I'd actually want the good of the people or not, but if if I did I would probably do something like this (or at least, this is a version good enough to put a thread).
(NOTE: These are merely the substantial points of change. As it would be ludicrous, I make no claim to the plausibility of this actually happening in 1910)
1- Completely abolish the states. I like the idea of them, but it's not worth trying to keep such a broken (compared to what it was supposed to be) institution alive.
2- Make the nation formally Catholic. Religious tolerance is in the Constitution, though. Abortion, contraception,
3- Amend the judicial system. When desired there is a right of appeal to the Pope, who can only be contradicted on the basis of his deliberately attempting to change the "substantial meaning" of the Constitution. (How this is interpreted is deliberately made legally ambigious, so it could be argued that the Council should do it but the precedent is dubious).
Assuming the Pope doesn't want a particular case, judicial decisions can be made by a chosen representative, with right of appeal to him. If that is not desired, a council of one third theologians, one third legal experts, and one third the President/Congressional representatives (depending on my descision on the Executive- if the President, he gets votes equivilant to one third of the Council) make the decisions with right of appeal.
4- One of these two, probably the former.
i- Abolish Congress and give it's (now greatly extended) powers to the President. However, when passing any law whatsoever there must be a delay of 20 days in which he debates "all comers" (to use venacular) about said law.
ii- Outlaw political parties and political lobbying. This clause may be "temporarily nulled" by Congress (they can put it back again later, and it remains in the Constitution) but ONLY on the grounds of being unenforcable in practice. Abolish the Executive and
5- Create voting restrictions to non-excommunicated Roman Catholics with an IQ above 70, who take an oath to support the Constitution and conservative values for their time as voter (the right can be renounced if they do not wish to keep the clauses).
6- Abolish the Bill of Rights.
7- Allow the Pope the power to make commands and/or laws legally binding on Catholics if desired, that override any relevant law from other bodies.
8- Make a "backup Constitution" in case the Papacy is ever abolished and no Papal claimants whatsoever (with emphasis on whatsoever) remaining. This Constitution mandates state Protestantism and the supression of non-Christian religions, and has a different judicial system.
9- Make a clause denouncing nationalism, and making all Government actions illegal if they are done for nationalistic reasons. Naturally, the President/Congress will be excluded from decisions as to when they are such. This is also an exception to the freedom of speech clause.
(NOTE: These are merely the substantial points of change. As it would be ludicrous, I make no claim to the plausibility of this actually happening in 1910)
1- Completely abolish the states. I like the idea of them, but it's not worth trying to keep such a broken (compared to what it was supposed to be) institution alive.
2- Make the nation formally Catholic. Religious tolerance is in the Constitution, though. Abortion, contraception,
3- Amend the judicial system. When desired there is a right of appeal to the Pope, who can only be contradicted on the basis of his deliberately attempting to change the "substantial meaning" of the Constitution. (How this is interpreted is deliberately made legally ambigious, so it could be argued that the Council should do it but the precedent is dubious).
Assuming the Pope doesn't want a particular case, judicial decisions can be made by a chosen representative, with right of appeal to him. If that is not desired, a council of one third theologians, one third legal experts, and one third the President/Congressional representatives (depending on my descision on the Executive- if the President, he gets votes equivilant to one third of the Council) make the decisions with right of appeal.
4- One of these two, probably the former.
i- Abolish Congress and give it's (now greatly extended) powers to the President. However, when passing any law whatsoever there must be a delay of 20 days in which he debates "all comers" (to use venacular) about said law.
ii- Outlaw political parties and political lobbying. This clause may be "temporarily nulled" by Congress (they can put it back again later, and it remains in the Constitution) but ONLY on the grounds of being unenforcable in practice. Abolish the Executive and
5- Create voting restrictions to non-excommunicated Roman Catholics with an IQ above 70, who take an oath to support the Constitution and conservative values for their time as voter (the right can be renounced if they do not wish to keep the clauses).
6- Abolish the Bill of Rights.
7- Allow the Pope the power to make commands and/or laws legally binding on Catholics if desired, that override any relevant law from other bodies.
8- Make a "backup Constitution" in case the Papacy is ever abolished and no Papal claimants whatsoever (with emphasis on whatsoever) remaining. This Constitution mandates state Protestantism and the supression of non-Christian religions, and has a different judicial system.
9- Make a clause denouncing nationalism, and making all Government actions illegal if they are done for nationalistic reasons. Naturally, the President/Congress will be excluded from decisions as to when they are such. This is also an exception to the freedom of speech clause.
If you mean criticising it, sure. As long as you at least try to make your points rational, go for it?
As the span of years allocated to American citizens is extending through great strides in science, no government appointment shall be for life of the appointee. There shall be no set limit of terms for any elected position, however no citizen of the US may serve in excess of 12 years total in the sum of all that citizens elected roles, in the event that the citizen is elected prior to the 12 years allotted then they may serve out the remaining years of that elected position but may not run again. (Not sure on how to phrase that well but you serve as a mayor for 4 years, a governor for 2, a representative for 2 and a senator for 6 you're done. Supreme Court Justices can serve for 12 years. Goal of this is to prevent the dynasties we're seeing now as well as limit the amount of pork barrel, as by the time you learn the game and building up favors you're on the way out.)
General Zod
Banned
Folks, the ideas expressed in this thread are very interesting, especially about the improvied BoR, but I worry that your use of too specific provisions may go beyond the intended scope of the Constitution.
I do have developed a project similar to the one of this thread, albeit with a different PoD (the Framers getting as much prophetic insight as possible and US including Canada).
What do you think of this BoR:
Article IV - The Bill of Rights
1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, and Expression.
The freedom of conscience being essential to a free state, no establishment or preference of religion shall be permitted under this Constitution, nor shall the free exercise of religion be impaired, nor the equal rights of conscience be infringed, nor shall any religious test or qualification ever be required for any office or public trust under the United States. Likewise, the freedom of speech and of the press, the right of the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances shall not be infringed, impaired, or temporarily suspended. And so too the privacy of the public post and of the home shall not be impugned, but upon oath or affirmation and by due process of law. In all cases and instances where the public safety be not endangered nor the rights of other persons be not threatened shall the free exercise of conscience command the utmost respect and deference under the laws of the United States.
2– Guarantee of Electoral Fairness.
The manner of election of the Representatives of the people of the United States shall not violate fair and equitable practices nor the equal franchise of each elector and should in all cases endeavor to express the free choice of the respective community of electors. The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age, race, color, sex, or previous condition of servitude, or by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.
3 - Right to Bear Arms.
A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people, trained in arms, to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed unless for violent crimes committed, treason, insurrection or rebellion, insanity, or real danger of public injury from individuals.
4 - Ban on Aristocracy.
No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince or foreign State.
5- Freedom from arbitrary laws and arrest.
That no person under the United States should come to harm by result of arbitrary or otherwise tyrannical law, no Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall ever be passed. The right of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
6 - Quartering of Soldiers.
No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.
7 - Search and Seizure. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. No evidence obtained through unreasonable searches and seizures shall be considered admissible in any court of the United States.
8 - Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings.
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense or a Lesser offense connected to the First to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb by the United States or any State, alone or in concurrence; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor shall be coerced to make statements against himself or others, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public benefit, without just compensation.
9 - Right to Speedy Trial, Confrontation of Witnesses.
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of competent Counsel for his defence. All Persons detained under the Law Shall be informed of their Rights under this Article prior to having any statement recorded. Statements made without this notification or under coercion shall not be admissible in any court of the United States.
10 - Trial by Jury in Civil Cases.
In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed an amount not less than twenty dollars and determined by Congress by three-fifths vote, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
11 - Cruel, Excessive, and Illiberal Punishment.
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel, excessive, or otherwise illiberal punishments inflicted.
12 - Construction of Constitution.
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Article V. - The States
Section 1 - Federal Guarantees and Supremacy
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a proper Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution. No one shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
The Rights protected by the constitutions of the several States, including their domestic institutions and privileges, are not to be infringed by this Constitution or any law of the United States, provided that no State shall violate the equal rights of conscience, or of expression, nor the trial by jury in criminal cases nor shall any Statedeprive a person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.
Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.
Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.
Section 2 - Powers prohibited of States
No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.
No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Control of the Congress.
No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.
Section 3 - Citizens of states
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States, or their rights as guaranteed under Article IV of this Constitution; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
A Person charged in any State with Treason, Felony, or other Crime, who shall flee from Justice, and be found in another State, shall on demand of the executive Authority of the State from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the State having Jurisdiction of the Crime.
I do have developed a project similar to the one of this thread, albeit with a different PoD (the Framers getting as much prophetic insight as possible and US including Canada).
What do you think of this BoR:
Article IV - The Bill of Rights
1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, and Expression.
The freedom of conscience being essential to a free state, no establishment or preference of religion shall be permitted under this Constitution, nor shall the free exercise of religion be impaired, nor the equal rights of conscience be infringed, nor shall any religious test or qualification ever be required for any office or public trust under the United States. Likewise, the freedom of speech and of the press, the right of the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances shall not be infringed, impaired, or temporarily suspended. And so too the privacy of the public post and of the home shall not be impugned, but upon oath or affirmation and by due process of law. In all cases and instances where the public safety be not endangered nor the rights of other persons be not threatened shall the free exercise of conscience command the utmost respect and deference under the laws of the United States.
2– Guarantee of Electoral Fairness.
The manner of election of the Representatives of the people of the United States shall not violate fair and equitable practices nor the equal franchise of each elector and should in all cases endeavor to express the free choice of the respective community of electors. The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age, race, color, sex, or previous condition of servitude, or by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.
3 - Right to Bear Arms.
A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people, trained in arms, to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed unless for violent crimes committed, treason, insurrection or rebellion, insanity, or real danger of public injury from individuals.
4 - Ban on Aristocracy.
No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince or foreign State.
5- Freedom from arbitrary laws and arrest.
That no person under the United States should come to harm by result of arbitrary or otherwise tyrannical law, no Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall ever be passed. The right of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
6 - Quartering of Soldiers.
No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.
7 - Search and Seizure. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. No evidence obtained through unreasonable searches and seizures shall be considered admissible in any court of the United States.
8 - Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings.
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense or a Lesser offense connected to the First to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb by the United States or any State, alone or in concurrence; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor shall be coerced to make statements against himself or others, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public benefit, without just compensation.
9 - Right to Speedy Trial, Confrontation of Witnesses.
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of competent Counsel for his defence. All Persons detained under the Law Shall be informed of their Rights under this Article prior to having any statement recorded. Statements made without this notification or under coercion shall not be admissible in any court of the United States.
10 - Trial by Jury in Civil Cases.
In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed an amount not less than twenty dollars and determined by Congress by three-fifths vote, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
11 - Cruel, Excessive, and Illiberal Punishment.
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel, excessive, or otherwise illiberal punishments inflicted.
12 - Construction of Constitution.
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Article V. - The States
Section 1 - Federal Guarantees and Supremacy
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a proper Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution. No one shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
The Rights protected by the constitutions of the several States, including their domestic institutions and privileges, are not to be infringed by this Constitution or any law of the United States, provided that no State shall violate the equal rights of conscience, or of expression, nor the trial by jury in criminal cases nor shall any Statedeprive a person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.
Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.
Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.
Section 2 - Powers prohibited of States
No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.
No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Control of the Congress.
No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.
Section 3 - Citizens of states
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States, or their rights as guaranteed under Article IV of this Constitution; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
A Person charged in any State with Treason, Felony, or other Crime, who shall flee from Justice, and be found in another State, shall on demand of the executive Authority of the State from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the State having Jurisdiction of the Crime.
MacCaulay
Banned
Wow, are you serious? A right to WORK? Were are we, the Eastern Bloc? I thought it was pursuit of happiness, not the RIGHT to it.
And that whole "seize property for the public good" thing has the ring of totalitarianism to it.
Though I do like the idea of getting the Second Amendment concreted.
(10 minutes later...)
And now that I've read the bill...I can say that I like it. I apologize for my Libertarian outburst. I say this as a compliment: you should be a politician or a policy wonk or something.
Did Section 2, Article V, talking about the states being able to levy "absolutely necessary" duties actually come from our constitution? And how far do you see that going?
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uh... you did notice the 'banned' tag under his name, didn't you? He can't respond to your comment...
Interesting Triumvirate
LacheyS
I like what you did with the PrimeMinister-President-AttorneyGeneral triumvirate within the context of a US style federation. If I got it right, the Prime Minister is the directly-elected executive of the Legislative Branch in charge of lawmaking and appropriations; the President is the directly-elected executive of the Executive Branch in charge of executive appointments and treaty affairs.... But it is the directly-elected Attorney General who has the power of veto and nominates the Supremre Court. It separates and protects powers without diluting the overall power of the federal government.
There may be some issues with some of your details that could lead unintentionally to excessive nationalism that could easily be tweaked, but I think your Constitution is very well thought out.
LacheyS
I like what you did with the PrimeMinister-President-AttorneyGeneral triumvirate within the context of a US style federation. If I got it right, the Prime Minister is the directly-elected executive of the Legislative Branch in charge of lawmaking and appropriations; the President is the directly-elected executive of the Executive Branch in charge of executive appointments and treaty affairs.... But it is the directly-elected Attorney General who has the power of veto and nominates the Supremre Court. It separates and protects powers without diluting the overall power of the federal government.
There may be some issues with some of your details that could lead unintentionally to excessive nationalism that could easily be tweaked, but I think your Constitution is very well thought out.
pacifichistorian
Banned
I like.
Just one question: how would you define "coerced"? Or would you leave it for SCotUS to reach a "community standards" definition?My apologies. I'm new here, and haven't quite found my way around yet. Just hoping the same tag doesn't appear under *my* name...
no worries...
You won't get banned for failing to notice the dates on a resurrected thread. Just read what Napoleon XIV posted, don't do anything like that, and you'll be fine...General Zod
Banned
I like.
I suppose that letting the SCoTUS free to define what means "coercion" precisely would be necessary, just like they ought to define "unreasonable" seaches and seizures, or "cruel and excessive" punishment. IMO, as a rule, a constitution works much better if it is framed in broad statments and standards that lawmakers and judges can define the details thereof according to evolving conditions, rather then overexacting regulations that are doomed to become obsolete or inadequate. What exercises like the present one ought to aim and do, is to plug the really extant loopholes and defects.
By the way, since I posted that bit, I realized that I had missed to add another bit to the revised and imporived BoR:
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses and other evidence against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses and other evidence in his favor, and to have the Assistance of competent Counsel for his defence. All Persons detained under the Law Shall be informed of their Rights under this Article prior to having any statement recorded. Statements made without this notification or under coercion shall not be admissible in any court of the United States.
The goal of this addition is ensure that the prosecution is obliged to make full disclosure of all evidence against the defendant, as well as to provide subpoena powers to gather evidence in favor of the defendant.
I have also added an expanded and clarified definition of treason, and absorbed all statements in it that the US Constitution makes about other kinds of treasonous and sedictious conduct (e.g. about ban to eligibility to public offices):
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War, Insurrection, or Rebellion against them, or in bearing arms in the field against armed forces of the United States or such nations or groups acting in concert with the United States against foreign entities of any kind, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort, or in Espionage on behalf of a foreign entity of any kind. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or written or otherwise recorded proof of an overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
(...)
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution. No one shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in treason against the same. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
What do you think ? Does this lanaguge loks adequate to the scope, and yet in period for 1787 ?
Remove marriages, replace with civil unions.
Fix the 2nd amendment so that those who are deemed mentally unsound, criminals, etc are not able to own firearms. Mandatory gun safety classes, registration of weapon, limits based on the type of weapon (No grenade launchers, for instance).
President is elected directly from the people.
Supreme court has an expressed duty as the defender of the constitution.
Increase the size of the supreme court to 18 justices. Each case will be heard by a randomly selected group of 9 (So they can hear and rule on twice as many cases).
The extension of constitutional rights to wherever the United States has sovereignty, and to all people within those borders; not merely the citizens.
No death penalty.
Fix the 2nd amendment so that those who are deemed mentally unsound, criminals, etc are not able to own firearms. Mandatory gun safety classes, registration of weapon, limits based on the type of weapon (No grenade launchers, for instance).
President is elected directly from the people.
Supreme court has an expressed duty as the defender of the constitution.
Increase the size of the supreme court to 18 justices. Each case will be heard by a randomly selected group of 9 (So they can hear and rule on twice as many cases).
The extension of constitutional rights to wherever the United States has sovereignty, and to all people within those borders; not merely the citizens.
No death penalty.
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Mandatory National Service in the Constitution?
I noticed that several people expressed that some kind of mandatory (military or nonmilitary) National Service should be a requirement for all Citizens.
I don't particulary have a strong feeling on the matter, but my feelings are vaguely negative. Since I have no argument to back up my feelings because I don't know much on the issue, I am very interested in hearing the reasoning and expectations For National Service.
I noticed that several people expressed that some kind of mandatory (military or nonmilitary) National Service should be a requirement for all Citizens.
I don't particulary have a strong feeling on the matter, but my feelings are vaguely negative. Since I have no argument to back up my feelings because I don't know much on the issue, I am very interested in hearing the reasoning and expectations For National Service.
pacifichistorian
Banned
One quibble. While I heartily agree with your intent, I doubt the Framers would have considered the prospect of incompetent counsel, absent our experience with PDs & our extremely clogged courts.
I created an altered version of the Constitution to my liking once, it evolved into a completely new constitution I've decided to use if on the chance I ever come to power.
Anyways, I'd add the following;
-Provisions on referendums like allowing the public to decide tie votes rather than the VP, specific laws able to be put to public votes etc.
-Term limits for ALL elected positions as well as some non-elected positions.
-Revamping it to include an implicit section on Civil liberties, essentially enshrining social libertarianism.
-Clarifying several areas, like specifically saying religion is forbidden from influencing or being supported in any way shape or form by any level of government.
-Abolishing all but small, highly regulated and scrutinized private campaigning and making it all public with limits on spending and forbaying negative campaign ads from being made with the public money.
-Putting more stress on equality.
-Adding sections on the common well being IE welfare, Universal Healthcare etc.
-A section that deals specifically what powers the federal and state governments have including ways in which to decide on issues not covered by the constitution.
-A section enshrining the right to self-determination and secession within reason IE you can't if you intend to be a theocratic dictatorship and you can't secede, re-join a few years later, secede five years after that etc.
-All but abolishing political parties.
-Making the House National with a system of open-list proportional representation with a 1% threshold and the Senate completely non-partisan, that is you can't be a member of a political party.
-Reforming the Executive structure, atleast weakening certain areas and at the most replacing it with an Executive Council.
Anyways, I'd add the following;
-Provisions on referendums like allowing the public to decide tie votes rather than the VP, specific laws able to be put to public votes etc.
-Term limits for ALL elected positions as well as some non-elected positions.
-Revamping it to include an implicit section on Civil liberties, essentially enshrining social libertarianism.
-Clarifying several areas, like specifically saying religion is forbidden from influencing or being supported in any way shape or form by any level of government.
-Abolishing all but small, highly regulated and scrutinized private campaigning and making it all public with limits on spending and forbaying negative campaign ads from being made with the public money.
-Putting more stress on equality.
-Adding sections on the common well being IE welfare, Universal Healthcare etc.
-A section that deals specifically what powers the federal and state governments have including ways in which to decide on issues not covered by the constitution.
-A section enshrining the right to self-determination and secession within reason IE you can't if you intend to be a theocratic dictatorship and you can't secede, re-join a few years later, secede five years after that etc.
-All but abolishing political parties.
-Making the House National with a system of open-list proportional representation with a 1% threshold and the Senate completely non-partisan, that is you can't be a member of a political party.
-Reforming the Executive structure, atleast weakening certain areas and at the most replacing it with an Executive Council.
Phrasing it in such a way to end the debate, at least in terms of the general spirit (though it could still be interpreted in various ways), about whether or not the government has the right to interfere in the economy/pursue social justice (rather than just the preservation of rights through criminal and civil justice; by this I mean the debate that actually occurs in America over whether or not the government has the imperative or even right to help the poor, improve healthcare and education, and so on).
Also, just a bit in the preamble about never putting god or the concept of the nation/fatherland/motherland (thus religion or patriotism) above the people and the law, which are equal and balancing parts of the essence of the nation (or something like that). A reiteration on the Captain America "without the freedoms it represents the US is just a piece of garbage" bit.
Also, just a bit in the preamble about never putting god or the concept of the nation/fatherland/motherland (thus religion or patriotism) above the people and the law, which are equal and balancing parts of the essence of the nation (or something like that). A reiteration on the Captain America "without the freedoms it represents the US is just a piece of garbage" bit.