WW2/Cold War if Alaska had been part of the USSR?

Mister Abbadon

It's much more likely that if Russia had held onto Alaska until The revolution Alaska would be White Russian Taiwan, but for the sake of argument, let's just wave our hands. The Soviet Union was the big enemy for much of the 20s.

If there isnt a war between The Allies and Soviet Union long enough for something resembling the cold war to start, we almost certainly get nuclear war.

Missiles in Cuba almost destroyed the world and they didn't stay there.

Nuclear weapons on the back door of the United States would result in perpetual panic. Someone screws up and hits launch
 

Blue cat

TheLastKnight said:
I think it would be impossible for Alaska to be a part of the USSR. If Russia had held onto Alaska, there would really only be two outcomes. One, the British or Americans seize Alaska during the Civil War and keeping it. But I think the second outcome would be the more realistic one. Alaska would become a larger Taiwan, with the White Russians establishing a Russian Republic in exile. The British, Canadians and Americans would work hard to help prop up the White emigre regime in Alaska. This White Russia would be internationally recognised as the legitimate Russian government by much of the world. A major butterfly effect to this would probably be the USSR being a full member of the Axis during WW2.
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Assuming the cold war in that time line evolved in a similar fashion to the cold war in our time line, in either of those cases I suspect Alaska and the Northwestern part of North America would have been a major potential cold war flash point. I suspect the USSR would either want to reclaim Alaska from the US, Canada, UK etc, or would want to see a break away nominally independent Alaska become part of the USSR.
I suspect Canada and the USA during the cold war might have other ideas..

On the other hand recovering Alaska might have been a central them of the foreign policy of the USSR which might have lead to a rather different WW2.

Presumably Canada and the USA would have had significantly stronger peace time militaries pre WW2 as well which likely changes things.
 

TheLastKnight

Blue cat said:
Assuming the cold war in that time line evolved in a similar fashion to the cold war in our time line, in either of those cases I suspect Alaska and the Northwestern part of North America would have been a major potential cold war flash point. I suspect the USSR would either want to reclaim Alaska from the US, Canada, UK etc, or would want to see a break away nominally independent Alaska become part of the USSR.
I suspect Canada and the USA during the cold war might have other ideas..

On the other hand recovering Alaska might have been a central them of the foreign policy of the USSR which might have lead to a rather different WW2.

Presumably Canada and the USA would have had significantly stronger peace time militaries pre WW2 as well which likely changes things.
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There may not be a cold war with the USSR. A White Russian state in Alaska would have significant raw resources, especially oil. The UK and the USA would most likely want to invest in the success of such a nation. Neither the USA or the UK were friends of the USSR in OTL and would be less so with a White Russian Alaska. If anything, I would see the USSR become a member of the Axis Powers out of neccesity. Now, I know the little Austrian would want to invade and destroy the USSR but I think at first, the need of the USSR's resources would hold an alliance together long enough. In an ATL WW2, I would think that the Japanese empire would be the token evil teammate of the Allies. (I know thats a big ask though). I'm thinking the enemy of my enemy is my friend type situation as the Japanese and the Soviets would have competing spheres of influence like in OTL. Not to mention, the White Russians would likely fund any anti-Soviet rebellion against Stalin. We could have an ATL WW2 with a Siberian front with White Russians, Japanese, Canadians, and Americans fighting against the Soviets.
 
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Hrvatskiwi

Hrvatskiwi

Handwaving away how unlikely a Soviet Alaska is, I think one of the biggest changes to OTL would actually be in Canadian politics. In OTL, there was already a significant Ukrainian population in Canada. These are most concentrated in the Western provinces, nearer to Alaska. There are also Ukrainian nationalist organisations operating in Canada in this time which are pro-Ukrainian independence and anti-Soviet. I could see an increased level of subterfuge as Soviet agents attempt to infiltrate these organisations and a resultant response by the Canadian security apparatuses. This may result in a Canadian red scare and a more rightward-swing paralleling the Red Scares of the USA.

The missile situation would be different to OTL, but I don't think it should be overstated; the distance between Alaska and key East Coast targets like Washington, New York etc. is still enormous.
We would likely see an increased militarisation of the Pacific Northwest, and likely a deal between the Canadians and Americans to maintain a joint border-force poised to invade Alyeska in the event of a conflict between Moscow and the West.
 

Blue cat

Hrvatskiwi said:
Handwaving away how unlikely a Soviet Alaska is, I think one of the biggest changes to OTL would actually be in Canadian politics. In OTL, there was already a significant Ukrainian population in Canada. These are most concentrated in the Western provinces, nearer to Alaska. There are also Ukrainian nationalist organisations operating in Canada in this time which are pro-Ukrainian independence and anti-Soviet. I could see an increased level of subterfuge as Soviet agents attempt to infiltrate these organisations and a resultant response by the Canadian security apparatuses. This may result in a Canadian red scare and a more rightward-swing paralleling the Red Scares of the USA.

The missile situation would be different to OTL, but I don't think it should be overstated; the distance between Alaska and key East Coast targets like Washington, New York etc. is still enormous.
We would likely see an increased militarisation of the Pacific Northwest, and likely a deal between the Canadians and Americans to maintain a joint border-force poised to invade Alyeska in the event of a conflict between Moscow and the West.
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Good points but I suspect the proximity of major U.S. and Canadian population centres to Alaska (ie. Seattle and Vancouver amongst other examples) would cause some concerns. (Perhaps ABM systems evolve differently.)

I suspect the borders of a Soviet owned Alaska might be different than a U.S. owned Alaska especially with regards to the “Pan Handle.”

It is conceivable that the border might not be well defined and or agreed upon between Canada and a Soviet owned Alaska ? That might have major ripple effects for Canada and the U.S. ? (Ie. Active patrolling in the border region being required on an ongoing basis with perhaps occasional skirmishes from time to time ?) Perhaps as part of a detente process the border issues might be settled ?
 
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Peg Leg Pom

minhow said:
Why would Alaska secceeds from the USSR? It could be a pro-soviet region since the start. It just depends how much the things are.
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Because in the 1918 Intervention the Bolsheviks would have been kicked out. There is ZERO chance of America, Britain or Canada allowing a communist Alaska to survive the revolution.
 

The Gunslinger

The Alaska border probably isn't the same as OTL, Britain has no need to curry favour with the Russians and probably takes a much harder line in the Alaska boundary dispute. I would expect Britain to push for the maximal claims in the area.

If the Americans or Canadians somehow manage not to nab the area during the Russian Civil War, which would be shocking to me since most of the people there will probably North American workers, Canada probably invests more on the West coast and adds a naval station to Prince Rupert as well as a major air base somewhere in central British Columbia, and even maybe something in what was then, the Queen Charlotte Islands (now Haida Gwaii). Probably more naval and air spending all around, without the deep cuts that happened in OTL, which probably nets a few extra destroyers in the navy and might even save the carrier.
 

Band in China

Banned
Aren't we all ignoring the Russo Japanese war? I suspect the United States would be more willing to extend Japanese credit at the very least.
 

Post

There's also the goldrush at the end of the 19th century.

Before WW2 starts there will definitely be some changes to OTL.
 

muddyleathers

Banned
Manifest destiny, oil, gold, and the Russo/japanese war all add up the the us taking control of Alaska in the early 1900’s.
If not, the 1917 revolution presents problems. A White Russian enclave would be considered as possible, most likely “allied” with a heavy us defensive presence. No way is Bolshevik Russia allowed a foothold on the North American continent, and no way they can do anything about it. That might be a fun little war, especially how alliances would work out in the future.
 

Peg Leg Pom

Post said:
There's also the goldrush at the end of the 19th century.
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Another reason for Britain and America to prevent a Soviet Alaska. Alaskan gold can be used to pay the Russian Empire's war debts, either by a White Russian remnant government or by outright annexation of Alaska. (For it's protection from the Soviets of course)
 

Post

Peg Leg Pom said:
Another reason for Britain and America to prevent a Soviet Alaska. Alaskan gold can be used to pay the Russian Empire's war debts, either by a White Russian remnant government or by outright annexation of Alaska. (For it's protection from the Soviets of course)
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The gold found in Alaska will also (probably) lead more finances for the Russian Empire and can even maybe butterfly the Russian revolution away (for instance if the better financial position lead to a better military and the Germans being defeated in 1917, or the economic situation overall is simply better, or the influx of Canadians and US Americans into Alaska lead to a slightly differen political climate).

Anyway there are bound to be several changes from OTL, which might even butterfly away WW2 and/or the cold war.
 
Maponus

Maponus

Lots of replies have mentioned the problem of Anglophone workers might present for the Soviets, but for some reason people aren't clocking that this is likely as big or a even bigger problem for anyone trying to make a "White Taiwan." These workers will undoubtedly take part in the Revolution and will have made at least contact with movements in the rest of the Empire. It's almost impossible to imagine that they will sit around being oppressed by the Russian Autocracy all the way till 1917 while their compatriots in Canada and America can, you know, vote. There will have been rebellions and strikes and such, which if we weren't handwaving Russian rule being maintained would probably have succeeded. They will certainly be divided sharply between Socialists and Liberals, but neither will want to be ruled at sabre point by backwards Russian aristocrats. In any situation where Bolshevik power can't project cross the strait, what you probably have is a brief Civil War between pro-Bolshevik and anti-Bolshevik Alaskans with the Canadians and America rushing in to back the later. The British and the US might have a fight over who gets to keep it, or a independent country is set up. White Russian emirges will be gruffly told to get a job.

The Soviets on the other hand, handwaving the likely prospect of Anglo-US Intervention sweeping in, will probably have less problems. Not no problems, but less. This is the early Soviet Federation, it's Internationalist and Westophilic. They are more interested in abolishing cyrillic than in forcing anyone to learn it. If they set themsleves up in Alaska aganist all the odds, the SSR they create there will have English as a offical language, and local Alaskan revolutionaries will be in charge of its government. Whether or not they name it as such, it will be the "first" American Soviet Socialist Republic in North America, and they'll want to use it to advertise the World Revolution to the American and Canadian working class. It will also likely become a refuge for those who want to flee the Red Scare, which will definitely be a hundred times worse. It could very well be that if Stalin does still roll around he ends up purging a lot of Wobblies and DeLeonists.
 
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sarahz

If this was still Russian in 1917/8 i cant see it being in the USSR. Given the Japanese intervention in Siberia and other general Western interventions i would expect this is a prime bet for a White Government in Exile (well sort of its still Russia)
LNSS said:
Assuming the Russian Empire never sold off Alaska, and it remained part of Russia/RSFSR... what would be the effects of that in WW2/Cold War? I'm thinking supplying the USSR would have been much easier during WW2, only for the North American Northwest to become extremely militarized by the 50s.
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