WW II Insanity Options

Carl Schwamberger

Antonio said:
Why I have the feeling that this is the inspiration for the Frisian Islands Landing nonsense?
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I wonder if Im the only gamer alive that remembers that game replay in the magazine. The Third Reich maps continued to be published with a "Beach" hex on a Frisian coast hex on all the editions of the map. If you were not guarding it with fleets placed in a port there, then you parked a infantry corps on it. So thousands of the players of that game pondered the threat of a unguarded coast.

Another outlier was a game where I saw the Soviet player pick off Sweden late 1943. it looked like wasted resources, until in 1945 he used airborne forces based there to make a last minute coup capturing a couple Victory Point cities in Germany which the US/Brit player had been counting on. That made for a net shift of two points giving the Soviet player highest score in the final count :openedeyewink:
 

Byzantion

A NI insurgency promoted by the Germans esely in the war on a similar Level like the Easter Rising during WW1 ? OTL there had been the so called Border Raids and various Abwehr infiltration.
 

Coulsdon Eagle

Monthly Donor
The British decide to expand their armoured forces by scrapping the light & infantry tanks (never reaching the cruisers...) and replace them with Martel's one man tankettes. With every Tommy his own personal AFV, the enemy would be overwhelmed by sheer numbers.

General Gamelin was reportedly taken to hospital suffering from a dislocated jaw in late 1939 after watching the 295th tank brigade acting like dodgems on an exercise in Northern France.

The Germans were troubled, stating that dealing with the British armoured units was like katzen huten, regularly losing 50% of their numbers simply rounding up the prisoners. Of course, the final riposte was the introduction of penalty charge notices, and the use of double yellow lines in place of barbed wire became common in defensive positions.
 

sparky42

Byzantion said:
A NI insurgency promoted by the Germans esely in the war on a similar Level like the Easter Rising during WW1 ? OTL there had been the so called Border Raids and various Abwehr infiltration.
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Off the top of my head there were no “border raids” during the war, and given the Anbwehr performance in Ireland, a piss up in a brewery was beyond them, let alone trying to create issues in NI.
 

CaptainCalvert

Germany invades the Isle of Wight.

And for that matter Isle of Wight joins the axis, or Isle of Man joins the axis.

Since I'm on a roll, Republic of Ireland joins the axis.
 

Coulsdon Eagle

Monthly Donor
CaptainCalvert said:
Germany invades the Isle of Wight.

And for that matter Isle of Wight joins the axis, or Isle of Man joins the axis.

Since I'm on a roll, Republic of Ireland joins the axis.
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All of the Allies join the Axis.

Italy decides to change sides to the Allies, and wins the war simply because no-one feels that warrants an invasion.
 

NOMISYRRUC

The_Persian_Cat said:
Think either of these could be possible. The British might lose Iraq if they got too tied down on every other front, or if Spain and Turkey join the Axis and control the entire Mediterranean. Iran might join the Axis in these scenarios, too -- and/or if things go a lot worse for the USSR. Iran especially is very mountainous, and has a large population with many good reasons to hate Britain and Russia -- it could be a theatre for a long, bloody, costly, and slow insurgency. But then again, Iran was already under British/Russian occupation, and the Pahlavi dynasty's position was precarious.

Still -- I don't think Iraq or Iran are beyond the realm of possibility. If you want true insanity -- India joins the Axis!! Subhas Chandra Bose somehow wins over a majority of Indian Hindus, and his rebellion is somehow supported by the INC. He receives direct support from a somehow more successful Japan, and finds ideological support in Germany because they're both Aryans. Savriti Devi becomes an actually influential person. Gandhi is very confused. Muslims, Sikhs, and Tamils are shocked and horrified.
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I can see India joining the Axis if the Japanese successfully invade Madagascar and set up bases instead of trying to take Port Moresby & Midway. It would also help if it was in combination with the Axis powers getting more involved in the Middle East theatre and Iran and/or Iraq along with Spain & Turkey joining the Axis.
  • Germany & Italy would be in control of Egypt and the Levant. Egypt produced some oil of its own, some of which could be sent to Spain, which answers one of the objections to Spain joining the Axis. I.e. the UK and USA would place an oil embargo on Spain and Germany & Italy didn't have enough oil to satisfy their own needs, let alone Spain's. The other argument was that Spain couldn't feed itself and was dependent upon imports that the UK & USA controlled. ITTL Spain could be supplied with food from Egypt.
  • There's a Turkish army making faces at the Soviet army in the Caucasus, drawing troops away from the Eastern Front and the Soviets may not have had the troops to spare for the OTL occupation of Iran either. However, the British may be able to occupy Iran on their own. Although of the occupation troops were Indian, so the occupation will be a short one if the following has also happened.
  • Iraqi forces secure their ports and Kuwait preventing the British from sending a force to supress the earlier Iraqi Revolt and enabling Iraq to hold out until Germany & Italy can send aid. Then oil can be sent Italy and Spain via the pipeline to Haifa and Tripoli (the one in the Lebanon not the one in Libya).
  • Italy might still have its East African empire and if it did, its likely that the Sudan had been occupied by the Axis too. If it is still holding out the Axis will be able to send supplies by sea once the Suez Canal is re-opened. In the meantime supplies could be sent up the Nile and then by rail to to Massawa. They will also be able to send warships to reinforce Italian East Africa when the Suez Canal is re-opened so they might have a go at taking Aden.
  • As I wrote before Madagascar is a target the British would be forced to defend and it probably results in the destruction of the British Eastern Fleet.
So the British forces in India have the Japanese in Burma on one side, an Axis Iraq (and Iran if it joins the Axis too) on the other side, there was no hope of resupply from the UK because of the Japanese bases in Madagascar and the coasts are wide opened to attack due to the destruction of the Eastern Fleet. The INC declares independence and the Viceroy accepts it because there's nothing he can do about it. The Government of the newly independent India immediately makes peace with the Axis powers, which is the most likely result or less likely India changes sides and joins the Axis.
 
The_Persian_Cat

The_Persian_Cat

Another example of WW2 insanity -- the US joins the war in 1941, but only in the Pacific. Germany doesn't declare war on the US, and -- although the US was hardly neutral in Europe, with lend-lease and destroyers-for-bases and so on -- it refuses to join the European war, for some unfathomable reason. Maybe it decides to claim the former Dutch East Indies, British Malaya, French Indochina, and Japanese Taiwan as its own colonies -- just as the (alleged) attack on the USS Maine justified the conquest of the Philippines, Pearl Harbour justified the conquest of Japanese-occupied territories (no matter who held them before).

Maybe Germany would want to support this. The US was far more of a threat than Japan, after all, and white Americans were a lot more "Aryan" than the Japanese. In 1941, instead of declaring war on the US, Hitler makes a statement condemning Japan and offering condolences to the Americans, and implies that the US would be justified in seeking vengeance for this attack by a "barbarian," "Oriental" nation. What's more -- Britain, France, and the Netherlands had all held Southeast Asia for decades, and failed to "civilise the savage races" living there; maybe the Americans should take over? They did a lovely job in Hawaii, after all, not to mention the indigenous peoples of the continental US...if the US decides to claim the Allies' Pacific colonies, then Germany will recognise and support them. It is only proper for the Aryan race to stand in solidarity against "Asiatic barbarians," just like how the Nazis were doing in the USSR.
 

Sekhmet_D

The_Persian_Cat said:
In 1941, instead of declaring war on the US, Hitler makes a statement condemning Japan and offering condolences to the Americans, and implies that the US would be justified in seeking vengeance for this attack by a "barbarian," "Oriental" nation.
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And Japan, spluttering with rage at being backstabbed by the nation it signed the Tripartite Pact with, declares war on Germany in response. How's that for insanity.
 
The_Persian_Cat

The_Persian_Cat

Sekhmet_D said:
And Japan, spluttering with rage at being backstabbed by the nation it signed the Tripartite Pact with, declares war on Germany in response. How's that for insanity.
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Yes, perfect. Now, the closest anti-German power would be the Soviet Union. So perhaps the Soviet Navy would assist Japan in the Pacific, while the Japanese Army would assist the USSR in Eastern Europe?

Stalin and Tojo grimace as they share a handshake. Germany betrayed them both in the same year, and they were both spiteful and desperate. They call their alliance "Hitler's Angry Ex-Boyfriends."
 

Nevarinemex

The_Persian_Cat said:
just as the (alleged) attack on the USS Maine justified the conquest of the Philippines,
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It was actually J.D. Rockefeller and Babcock & Wilcox. They wanted to introduce the oil fired steam boiler, replacing coal fired boilers at sea. It was thwarted by T. Roosevelt though./sarc
The_Persian_Cat said:
Maybe Germany would want to support this. The US was far more of a threat than Japan, after all, and white Americans were a lot more "Aryan" than the Japanese. In 1941, instead of declaring war on the US, Hitler makes a statement condemning Japan and offering condolences to the Americans, and implies that the US would be justified in seeking vengeance for this attack by a "barbarian," "Oriental" nation.
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The Tirpitz, Prinz Eugen, Gneisenau and who else are sitting in port collecting rust. Why not Lend-Lease the Kriegsmarine capital ships to replace the Arizona, Oklahoma and Utah? It's always been a wonder as to why Hitler didn't have his staff look into the US Constitution a bit more on the subject of declaring war.
The_Persian_Cat said:
What's more -- Britain, France, and the Netherlands had all held Southeast Asia for decades, and failed to "civilise the savage races" living there; maybe the Americans should take over? They did a lovely job in Hawaii, after all, not to mention the indigenous peoples of the continental US...if the US decides to claim the Allies' Pacific colonies, then Germany will recognise and support them. It is only proper for the Aryan race to stand in solidarity against "Asiatic barbarians," just like how the Nazis were doing in the USSR.
Click to expand...
Hitler could make an argument that Britain, France and Japan made agreements to transfer the Marianas, Marshall or Caroline Islands to Japan. First by Treaty of Versailles and then a League of Nations mandate. Two blows against the US, which is majority Germanic in ethnicity at that time. I think that the racial vendetta theme will fly in America.

Let's not forget that the PI sustained close to a quarter million deaths during pacification. "Civilize them with a Krag". Actually, the US does claim the former German CenPac colonies as Trust Territories after the war.
 
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Post

Carl Schwamberger said:
I wonder if Im the only gamer alive that remembers that game replay in the magazine. The Third Reich maps continued to be published with a "Beach" hex on a Frisian coast hex on all the editions of the map. If you were not guarding it with fleets placed in a port there, then you parked a infantry corps on it. So thousands of the players of that game pondered the threat of a unguarded coast.

Another outlier was a game where I saw the Soviet player pick off Sweden late 1943. it looked like wasted resources, until in 1945 he used airborne forces based there to make a last minute coup capturing a couple Victory Point cities in Germany which the US/Brit player had been counting on. That made for a net shift of two points giving the Soviet player highest score in the final count :openedeyewink:
Click to expand...
I think in Allied General I once played the D-Day map as Germany and towards the end I dropped a unit of paratroopers in southern England and took one of the harbors.
 

Kushim

The_Persian_Cat said:
Yes, perfect. Now, the closest anti-German power would be the Soviet Union. So perhaps the Soviet Navy would assist Japan in the Pacific, while the Japanese Army would assist the USSR in Eastern Europe?

Stalin and Tojo grimace as they share a handshake. Germany betrayed them both in the same year, and they were both spiteful and desperate. They call their alliance "Hitler's Angry Ex-Boyfriends."
Click to expand...
The League of (Other) Evil Exes
 

Carl Schwamberger

Post said:
I think in Allied General I once played the D-Day map as Germany and towards the end I dropped a unit of paratroopers in southern England and took one of the harbors.
Click to expand...


Love that. Most D Day or Overlord games abstract away 'England' and such gambits are not possible. Its even difficult to use the residual Luftawffe of 1944 to interdict even small parts of the Allied naval & cargo traffic to France.
 
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