Wrapped in Flames: The Great American War and Beyond
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While the railroad is delayed, I wouldn't say its less likely to be completed before the Canadian Transcontinental Railroad. The US now has a little less sectarian divide, but otherwise a geography which is far more convenient to build across. Canada still has the mass of the Canadian Shield blocking its movement west, though there is at least a government which is now more friendly to its rapid advancement. Canada also has yet to purchase Rupert's Land and get its connection to the Pacific intact.
Interesting! I'd never heard of more than two other Trent timelines on this website (much less British intervention in the Civil War stories) so its good to know more exist.
My take on A. S. Johnston is that he had the ability to become one of the better Confederate generals, but not the chance. He managed to direct an army into the line of contact with Grant and Thomas virtually undetected and achieve tactical/strategic surprise, knocking it back. I doubt he could have won Shiloh as he envisioned, but he absolutely could have delayed the Union advance. That shows at least some strategic and tactical acumen, and his biggest mistakes there came from a) acting like a brigade commander rather than an army commander and b) trusting his generals with a complex plan, but that was not unique in the Civil War.
More of a niche opinion for me, but he probably could have been one of the more effective generals in the West had he lived.
in WiF, he's seen as the great leader in the West for recapturing Nashville, taking the war into Kentucky, and the victory at Bardstown in 1862 in time will be viewed as a turning point in the West, as it establishes a Confederate control in the state that lasts up to the peace process. Those important pieces of real estate will not be seen as being lost until someone else takes over. A "what if" in TTL is if he had gone on to command after the Union City campaign.
Precisely that, yes. Britain wanted to make the Canadian colonies safe, and so establishing a secure overland route for communications by taking Aroostook and some border territory was seen as paramount in importance. I learned that Palmerston himself detested the territorial changes in the Webster-Ashburton Treaty, and thought they should be changed. I figured he would push for that rather than land on the Pacific that he, and to my knowledge few in his cabinet, showed any interest in. They might kick themselves for it down the line, but it was not the seat of the war, nor forefront in their minds. I did toy with giving more territory to Canada, but I figured that was not what Britain wanted. Navigation around the Pig Islands (San Juan Islands for those who want the exact geography) was important, but expanding British Columbia was not.
A buffer for connecting Canada to the sea, yes, so much territory to garrison and police while potentially making the United States as a whole mad, no. The people of the region who are die hard patriots will be gone by 1866, while those who shrug and get on with life will still be there. T
Prince Edward Island will have competition for who has the most potatoes post-Confederation...
Far, *far* different than trying to grab Detroit or even Portland, Maine. (And if they had tried to grab Boston in the treaty, I don't think the Americans would have signed. )
There was really no scenario where the British could have seized a major city at the peace treaty. Seizing the Oregon Territory would have been a stretch (but feasible) however, just slicing off part of New England - especially a major city - would have been unacceptable to the United States body politick at large, meaning that Lincoln could never have passed such a treaty, forcing the war onwards.
This is something both sides were aware of. The US went to the table because they needed peace in the north to fight against the South more effectively, while Britain had basically achieved all her war aims and a new campaign in 1864 would probably not have gone in the United States favor, which meant each side could accept a peace treaty, but Britain had enough of an advantage that she would not take a white peace like in 1814.
Honestly you did us a favour, now the Americans can still hold the blame for Starbucks and the yuppie pretensioness of modern Seattlites instead of it being on our heads
I didn't know there were few Trent Affair timelines on this website either. I haven't even touched upon an even older (defunct) one where the Trent Affair led to a World War (and no, it is not Britannia's Fist, but even that didn't show the so-called World War the title promised). I can't find that one anymore but looking back, it was quite silly in its premise.
On that note about Britannia's Fist, could the Laird Rams incident really start a war between the US and Britain? I read some articles about them and they suggest it could lead to war in 1863 but I'm not fully convinced. I didn't know how to ask this question without sounding like I find Tsouras' book plausible.
Chapter 120: 1865 A Year in Review
Chapter 120: 1865 A Year in Review
North America:
May 18th - The Saint Andrews and Quebec Railroad is completed, making an all Canadian route to the Atlantic.
October 25th - In response to rumours among freedmen on the island of Jamaica that the particularly cruel and loathed Governor John Eyre meant to reimpose slavery on the island, the preacher Paul Bogle marches on the courthouse in the parish of St. Thomas in the East. The unruly crowd, met by white militia from the local plantations, throws stones and the militia open fire unprompted. In response mobs drive off the militia and effectively take over the whole parish for a month. Governor Eyre orders in troops who burn and kill indiscriminately, leaving 25 dead on the government side, but over 600 killed or executed black peasants and freedmen dead. The move sets off waves of condemnation in London, which removes Eyre in December.
December 28th - Despite the loss of blood and treasure, Queen Isabella refuses to evacuate Spanish troops from the island of Hispaniola. By October, only the city of Santo Domingo and some surrounding countryside is still in the hands of Spanish forces. However, the resulting costs have been far in excess of what Spain is willing to pay. Agreements between local Spanish commanders and the Dominican leaders will eventually see an agreement to annul the annexation in January 1866 and the withdrawal of Spanish forces.
Europe:
“The victory of the Liberal Party in the 1865 United Kingdom General election was all but assured. Palmerston, through a combination of canny spending, generous time with the peers, and a reputation buoyed by the victory in North America, was unshakable in his seat at the head of the Liberals. Derby’s Conservatives were despairing, as Palmerston had managed to increase his majority in Parliament by a further 18 seats[1]. His hold over the politics of Britain seemed unshakable…
However popular Palmerston himself may have been, his hold on the party he had helped found was slipping. Put simply, Palmerston was old, and losing his political instincts. He did not have the energy he had possessed even a decade earlier. In October of that year he had celebrated his 80th birthday, and even he seemed to sense his energy was waning. It was noted he would doze during sessions of Parliament, was prone to fixating on specific issues, namely defence, the French, and Reform, to the near ignorance of all others, and seemed bullish towards any proposed changes in government.
It was his staunch opposition to electoral reform that drew a deepening wedge in the party. Both Russell and Gladstone were believers in some form of reform to expand the franchise of barely one million to a larger extent of the population. Palmerston however, who had been a notably enemy of the Chartists, resolutely opposed anything. Though he could be amiable when discussing Russell’s more restrained expansion of the franchise, he was firm in ordering the government never commit itself to any firm course of action in Parliament. Gladstone, on multiple occasions, went against this mandate and would speak openly of the need for such reform.
Palmerston believed this to be nothing less than the incitement of the working classes to political participation, something the Prime Minister thought of with a particular revulsion. “What every Man and Woman too have a Right to, is to be well governed and under just Laws, and they who propose a change ought to shew that the present organization does not accomplish those objects,” Palmerston would warn Gladstone. He remembered the French Revolution and its outcome, and would entertain nothing so radical unless absolutely necessary. With a booming post-war economy, a strong showing of Britain’s might overseas, and having managed to soothe ruffled feathers between Austria, Prussia, Denmark and Sweden on the Continent for the moment, he believed that any radical change was unnecessary.
However, in failing to manage his chief lieutenants, he would not pave the way for Liberal ascendancy for long past 1866[2]…” - The Lord Palmerston, 2002
Prime Minister, Lord Palmerston
May 28th - The Mimosa sets sail for Patagonia with 153 Welsh settlers to establish a new colony in the region[3].
July 29th - The Great Eastern, barely half a year from undergoing repairs from its work as a massive transport during the American War, sets sail for North America to relay the Trans-Atlantic Telegraph to re-establish telegraphic communications with North American via Newfoundland.
December 17th - Leopold II becomes King of the Belgians.
South America:
“...the Spanish seizure of the guano rich islands in late 1864 had set off a wave of protests from the nations of South America, in particular Chile and Peru. Though all Latin American nations on the Pacific coast were outraged, it was Chile’s president José Pérez who began preparations. When the Spanish ship Vencedora stopped for coal in Chilean waters, Pérez declared that coal was a war material and it would not be supplied to a hostile nation. Admiral Pareja, deciding that this meant Chile was not a neutral nation in the undeclared conflict with Perua, decided to treat Chile as a belligerent nation.
Detaching warships to shadow Chile’s major ports, he arrived with his flagship at Valparaiso on September 17th. Upon arrival, he demanded a 21 gun salute for the Spanish flag, knowing that such a request before Fiestas Patrias would be considered an insult, he was unsurprised when the Chilean government bluntly refused. In return, he declared sanctions against the Chilean government and a blockade of the coast of Chile. Though that was impossible to carry out, he used most of his squadron to blockade Valparaiso in an attempt to inflict economic damage on the nation severe enough to keep Chile out of the conflict…
The war finally turned bloody when in November the Chilean corvette Esmerelda pounced upon the Spanish schooner Covadonga, capturing it in a one sided battle that saw no loss of life on the Chilean side… Admiral Pareja, outraged and humiliated, immediately began planning an attack to win back Spanish prestige, knowing that this was the only way to keep his command in light of his flagrant disregard of orders from Madrid…” - The Chincha Islands War, Maxwell O’Donnel, Portsmouth, 1998
January 1865 - the Paraguayan invasion of Brazil and Argentina continues, with Paraguayan forces occupying swathes of the Brazilian province of Mato Grosso, while another Paraguayan Army moved into the Argentinian provinces of Corrientes and Rio Grande de Sol.
May 1st - the Treaty of the Triple Alliance between Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay is signed by the three powers. They agree not to sign a separate treaty against Paraguay, and to continue to fight until the present government, in the person of Lopez and his family is overthrown and the territorial integrity of the respective parties is restored. Though the treaty pledges each nation to respect the integrity of Paraguay, many suspect that this will not be the outcome.
June 11th - The Brazilian Navy delivers a crushing blow to the Paraguayan Navy at the Battle of Riachuelo in Argentina. The Peruvian fleet, attempting to stop the Brazilian Navy from continuing up the river to supply the allies, launches a surprise attack which is stopped by the Brazilians. In the ensuing battle, 5 Peruvian ships are sunk or captured, while Brazil loses a single ship. Lopez is forced to bring his navy back, leaving the way open for an allied invasion and ending the threat to Argentina.
The Battle of Riachuelo
Asia:
“For the second time in barely a decade, Beijing burned. The Armies of the Proclamation had advanced northwards in good order, scattering the loyalist forces and Manchu cavalry.
Zeng Guofan had ordered a wide encirclement of Beijing, hoping to stop any effort by the Imperial family to flee. Zongtang had led the wide march up through Zhili to the borders of Inner Mongolia, while Luo Bingzhang led a force to Qinhuangdao to control the coastal roads. Guoban would lead the victorious army that had taken Nanjing up to the imperial city itself…
The slaughter was immense, with many in the Qing household having been abandoned in the flight of Ci’ian, Cixi and the nine year old Tongzhi emperor. Those seized by the forces of the Proclamation were put to the sword, and Beijing was ‘turned upside down’ in order to ferret out any members of the imperial family who remained. The dowager empresses would not meet the same fate in Beijing, but be captured by cavalry patrols just before the border of Inner Mongolia. Upon interrogation, the young emperor let slip his place, and his whole caravan was immediately put to the sword…
…with the heads of his enemies presented, Zeng was satisfied that, while the imperial Manchu had not been completely wiped out, the emperor and his immediate family were dead. Looking north, into Manchuria, he was confronted with a problem. The Manchu homeland was remote, and would take time to conquer and place under his rule. Potential rebels might still exist, and his reign was still shaky. Rebels still gathered in the northwest, and peasant rebellions were still a threat across the south. Rather than a campaign north, despite what his brothers demanded, he decreed in September of 1865 that now was the time for consolidation. Thus leaving the problem of Manchuria for a more unfortunate later date…” - Twilight of Dynasties: The 19th Century Crisis of China, Sylvester Platt, Oxford Publishing, 2012
Ruins of the Old Summer Palace, 1870
The Pacific:
“...almost every opening act of the British campaign in the Waikato would end in embarrassing failure. Governor Grey ordered Cameron to cross the Mangatāwhiri Stream, and Cameron, with his force in two brigades with 12,000 men, attempted to cross into Kingite territory, but soon immediately had to stall and stretch out his forces along their supply lines as Maori raiders slipped through patrols and burned supply convoys.
Establishing a line of redoubts, Cameron determined to attack the nearest pa that would assist Maori warriors and sustain them before moving into British settled territory. Over August, dozens of short sharp fights would rage along this line, with the eventual British assault on the Koheroa ridges. Cameron suffered over 157 casualties in these sharp engagements, and his forces moved at a snails pace, having to dig their way through multiple entrenchments thrown up by the Maori.
By October, he had a line of over 30 stockades protecting his rear and supply columns, ensuring he could advance into the interior…
Coming into contact with the Maori defences at Rangiriri, Cameron realized this was the greatest, and most impressive fortification that the British had yet encountered…
The Battle of Rangiriri was the costliest attack of the war for the British. With 59 killed and 143 wounded, Cameron had lost almost 15% of his column[4], while the Maori, repelling the British assaults, managed to withdraw in good order deeper into the Waikato, ensuring the king movement would fight on into 1866.” – Empire and Blood: British Military Operations in the 19th Century Volume IV
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1] This compared to the only 13 seats he secured OTL is just a measure that the Conservatives are popular here, thanks to Palmerston.
2] That’s right, Palmerston does not die in 1865.
3] This isn’t some world shaking event, I just think it’s cool personally. Plays a teeny tiny role in the science fiction novel I wrote last year.
4] Way worse outcome for the British than OTL. They lost much more lightly and Cameron managed to capture the whole Maori force, here they largely escape in good order while leaving the British humiliated.
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So it seems like Peru might be dragged into the war of Triple alliance which thanks to the Chilean battles against the Spanish means the whole of South America could go up in flames, or rather, those flames spreading out to other countries.
What will that agreement be like?
One treaty port, reparations, trade concessions...
What could it be?
Will Palmerston leave a schisming liberal party behind?
If the Qing dynasty is destoyed utterly, the great powers will I think end up carving China up more than OTL. Zheng Guofan has no legitimacy to fall back on when trying to hold down a plethora of other rebel leaders and various interest groups.
I wonder if this will lead to the Maori being even more respected (or getting the respect earlier) than OTL, or a much bloodier reprisal.
If the Qing dynasty is destoyed utterly, the great powers will I think end up carving China up more than OTL. Zheng Guofan has no legitimacy to fall back on when trying to hold down a plethora of other rebel leaders and various interest groups.
I wonder if this will lead to the Maori being even more respected (or getting the respect earlier) than OTL, or a much bloodier reprisal.
Certain ex members of this site could get quite worked into a tizzy on the old Trent War TLs!
Well otl dizzy outclassed them in 1867 on reform so nothing much has actually changed yet
Wait doesn’t the south winning lead to rise of socialism and since communism was born during the civil war or before that we may see socialism or communism rising mainly in the Americas and it may take over the presidency of the USA
The war really got out of hand.
Yes, Peru getting involved in the Triple Alliance would be more than a little bit of a divergence, I did indeed mean Paraguay!!
There is potential for it, but Russell and Gladstone aren't so much opposed to reform as him (and Palmerston was dead set against it, there's a reason it wasn't until he was dead it was passed) but both men do disagree on its breadth. Gladstone is a little more radical in that direction, while Russell has a "slow and steady" attitude.
Mmm don't be too sure. The European powers only never overthrew the Qing because they weren't sure someone worse wouldn't come along - but also the Qing chronically owed them money. Here it's very much a "wait and see" approach, and indeed the speed and excess of the collapse of the Qing is going to come as a shock to the European powers, since its both seen as old and venerable, but also not quite so vulnerable.
However, the Europeans would have cheerfully overthrown the Qing if they thought they could get away with it. Zeng will have to show he can play ball, else he'll have some trouble. However, he's going to get trouble either way in the latter half of the 1860s. Ongoing rebellions and a Manchurian problem.
Sadly, bet on the latter.
Correct. When Palmerston shuffles off his mortal coil, the floodgates will open.
I guess Russia will have to involve itself, lest it's recent acquisitions in the region be threatened.