Would it have been anachronistic to refer to the victory of mind over strength in the 14th century?

[alter]

János Arany, 19th century Hungarian poet wrote a trilogy of epic poems about the 14th century Hungarian knight, Miklós Toldi.

The last part of the trilogy, Toldi Estéje "Toldi's Night" takes place at the very end of the 14th century, the titular character is an old man, months before his death in 1390.

During the poem, Old Toldi is disheartened by the Italian Renaissance influence on Hungarian culture he observes, for example he calls the new Italian-influenced knights in the king's court "Girl-faced jumping monkeys" who are more artists than true warriors.

In the end of the poem, Toldi is on his deathbed, after he unsuccessfully tried to re-introduce elements of the High Middle Ages of his youth into Renaissance Hungary.

King Lajos, a close friend and patron of Toldi, tells him:

"Time goes by fast, it walks its path as it always had,
If we follow it we progress, if we don't, it won't wait,
The world is changing: What was strong becomes weak,
And what was weak becomes strong.

Time marches on, we old ones will die,
Only legends of our strength will survive,
A people with a different culture, different manners will grow up,
Who will conquer with wits and cleverness, not with the strength of the body.
Not long ago, the Mind has found a simple powder, (referring to gunpowder)
That is able to bring Death upon whole armies.
Toldi or no Toldi, they fall before it in rows.
The power of Reason is what won, in the image of that little powder!"

After hearing this, Toldi dies.


Do you think a similar thing could have happened sometime around 1390? That a learned man from that period, such as a nobleman, a king, a scholar, or a monk, could have deducted such modern conclusions from the changes of the world around them, or would this sentiment be more appropriate from the 18th century for example?

 

[alter]

*bump* Any ideas or opinions?

 

[Gasmask134]

Didn't the renaissance start in the second half of the 15th century? How could a guy in 1390 be complaining about it?

 

[Diego]

Didn't the renaissance start in the second half of the 15th century? How could a guy in 1390 be complaining about it?

I've seen people placing its start as early as 13th century, with Giotto and Dante.

 

[Gasmask134]

I've seen people placing its start as early as 13th century, with Giotto and Dante.

I've never seen it placed that early unless they were discussing the origins and precussors to it, Though I suppose I can see that...

 

[BellaGerant]

Yeah, 1390 seems a tad bit early to be complaining about the Renaissance, seeing as Hungary embraced the Renaissance during Matthias Corvinus' reign. The Renaissance starting in the 13th century doesn't really matter in this context because it's talking about "Renaissance Hungary," after the Renaissance took hold in Hungary, not Italy. Brief look at wikipedia says a folklore tends to place Toldi a hundred years later, when Matthias Corvinus ruled Hungary, which I suppose would explain the commentary on the Renaissance.

As for the powder bit, I suppose. Guns had been used in Europe in the earlier part of the 14th century (English at Calais in the 1340s). Armies were starting to adapt to using firearms before the 1390s and it wouldn't be strange for someone to figure that it would eventually become very useful (though to the modern extent? Eh, maybe if Toldi was set in the 1490s instead, that's more reasonable to say).

 

[alter]

In Hungarian history, the start of the Renaissance is usually counted from the late 14th century when the effects of Italian culture started becoming more apparent. Although Hungary was throughly Westernized from the early 11th century onwards, after King Saint Stephen established Hungary as a Christian Kingdom, the 14th and 15th centuries brought profound change and Italianization in many aspects of culture. Although King Lajos is remembered as a "Knight King" who actively took part in military campaigns and other similar activities, under his rule, Chivalry in Hungary started to become more of a honorific institution given to learned nobleman who also received some military training (but this training being more like Martial Arts, instead of the soldier training earlier knights received), rather than being the domain of elite warriors.

Toldi is a somewhat Quixotic figure in Arany's poem. As his days of youth and glory were during the tail end of the High Middle Ages, he thinks that that period was the "Golden Age". In an earlier part of the poem he even calls the country Hungary has become by his old age an "Italian Puppet", thinking that heroism, physical prowess, and patriotism is more important than the less violent and more cultured society Italian culture has brought to Hungary.

King Lajos is a somewhat ambivalent character in the poem. On one hand, he wants Hungary to progress and "become a Jewel among nations instead of a shame" as he puts it, but he also feels sorry for Toldi, who was one of his best knights in his court.

In the end, Toldi dies a depressing death, and Lajos wonders about what the future will bring, seemingly predicting the Enlightenment and the Scientific Method.