With a POD of 1777, what is the hardest to imagine for 2007?

Strategos' Risk

I was thinking about the different aspects of an alt-world. In AH, it is always easiest to speculate on the AH politics, geography, religion, social trends, etc., since history is more than half of AH. However, what other aspects are harder to determine?

So let's say the POD is in 1777- a relatively modern time, post-Enlightenment and at the onset of the coming Anglo prominence/European mass reshuffling. It's also a fairly popular time for AHs. More than two hundred years later, what would be hardest to determine?

I'd say alt-art and alt-music are. Can anyone even begin to imagine what alternate music would sound like? I think music is one of the least thought of aspects in AH. Of course, the development of music is affected highly by changes in history- different instruments, different social climates, different figures all would rapidly change the development of music. Personally, I think it's virtually as impossible to extrapolate AH music for a POD before 1900.
 

Max Sinister

Banned
About art and music: I think there aren't too many forms possible. Sure, the names of styles would be different, but otherwise? If there's popular music for young people, there'll be harder styles (rap or metal) and softer styles. Movie genres would develop similar... the only question is, which ones would develop first, and which ones would be most popular.
 

Alcuin

Banned
Obviously cultural forms are more difficult to predict but I imagine not completely unpredictable. The modern popular forms arose from traditional forms already extant in 1777. If America tends to dominate economically, the cultural follows and it is likely that there will be Rock Music and Country and Western (or some other combination of influences combining African, Irish and French influences).

If, on the other hand, Austria-Hungary became a superpower, the musical track might consist of a wild blend of 18th century dance music (perhaps in 3/4 time) with Gypsy dances such as the Trepak, and perhaps some Italian influence, with operatic voices and the vigour of the Tarantella.

I'd say that High Culture (including "classical" music) is more difficult to predict because it relies to a great extent on individual expertise. Similarly, fashions are inherently unpredictable. For example, who in 1777 could have imagined the invention of the ubiquitous suit and tie?

Literature is the least easy to predict, simply because even tiny changes might alter the experiences of authors and butterfly their works away (or into hopelessly mutated versions).
 

LordKalvan

a POD in 1777 can change everything of what we know: history, science, obviously arts, philosophy, you name it.

It would be beatifully posed at the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, at the beginning of the AWI, 12 years before the French Revolution, with Napoleon a child.

Any and every thing might happen (obviously including a successful Sea Lion in 1940 :p:p)
 
Thande

Thande

Donor
1777 is early enough that "Anglo" dominance is anything but assured. It was possible, albeit unlikely, that Britain could have been invaded by the Bourbon Alliance during the ARW. While it's unlikely Britain would have been in thrall to someone else for too long, it'd probably break the union and reduce us to a second-rank power. The United States could also break apart into irrelevant minor states if they fail to agree on a constitution, even if they win the ARW. Depending on if the French Revolution still happens, then, you could end up with a largely francophone world with, perhaps, more radical politics than OTL (although that's far from given).
 

1940LaSalle

While it's somewhat before 1777 (about 12 years, actually), suppose James Watt had been killed in an accident sustained while developing his condensing steam engine. That could have delayed much of the industrial revolution significantly: I'd guess that it might have set it back a good 30 years or more.

Delaying the IR would have slowed British pre-eminence on the world stage, and likely would have meant a lesser empire (perhaps India might have gone into other hands?). It may also have meant a greater sentiment for a more Jeffersonian model for the nascent US government-assuming that there was an American revolution in the first place, which would have a sizable ripple effect down the road.
 
Thande

Thande

Donor
1940LaSalle said:
While it's somewhat before 1777 (about 12 years, actually), suppose James Watt had been killed in an accident sustained while developing his condensing steam engine. That could have delayed much of the industrial revolution significantly: I'd guess that it might have set it back a good 30 years or more.

Delaying the IR would have slowed British pre-eminence on the world stage, and likely would have meant a lesser empire (perhaps India might have gone into other hands?). It may also have meant a greater sentiment for a more Jeffersonian model for the nascent US government-assuming that there was an American revolution in the first place, which would have a sizable ripple effect down the road.
Click to expand...

That's a bit too Great Man Theory for my tastes - there were a LOT of brilliant people in many countries working on improvements for the steam engine - if it wasn't Watt, I think it would have been invented by someone else within a decade or so of OTL...
 

Strategos' Risk

Alcuin said:
Obviously cultural forms are more difficult to predict but I imagine not completely unpredictable. The modern popular forms arose from traditional forms already extant in 1777. If America tends to dominate economically, the cultural follows and it is likely that there will be Rock Music and Country and Western (or some other combination of influences combining African, Irish and French influences).

I'd say that High Culture (including "classical" music) is more difficult to predict because it relies to a great extent on individual expertise. Similarly, fashions are inherently unpredictable. For example, who in 1777 could have imagined the invention of the ubiquitous suit and tie?
Click to expand...

I'd have to disagree. It seems like pop music, and perhaps all pop culture in general, is very very hard to predict.
 
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