WI: WWII lasts till 1946 in Europe
- Thread starter SeanB
- Start date
I never claimed it was a particularly likely scenario, now did I? Hell, I would it unlikely in the extreme to say the least. However it isn't completely impossible. And that is all I'm looking for.
...Hissy fit?
All I did was explain what I intended here. I was never trying to make an extremely detailed scenario, I've got enough on my plate already. No reason to act like an ass or flame me now. That won't end well for anyone involved.
Have you even read any threads on this forum?
Setting up a basic scenario and then asking for people's opinions on it is what half the threads here are about, and it almost always results in interesting discussions.
I'd say that the allies would flood the airspace over Germany not only with late models Thunderbolts and mustangs, but you would also see a number of the meteor, vampire and P-80 jets covering the B-29 raids eventually the luftwaffe will be whittled down as quickly as it did in the OTL.
It's not really the same at all as, had certain battles, strategies and events gone differently, you could very well see a Germany that lasted longer. It isn't at all like Sealion. While I didn't go into specifics on each and every battle or event during the war that could have gone differently, there were plenty of ways that Germany could have performed better in WWII, especially in the strategy department.
No, Germany could have easily lasted longer if the pod was pre-war and even early-war. You're the one who's insulting people and detracting from the main point of the thread which is how the war would have gone if Germany lasted longer.
backstab
Banned
Nuking German Cities would have been harder than you think. Right up to the end of the war they had one of the most heaviest Ground based Air Defence Networks ever seen. You would probably see any lone bomber shot out of the sky before it could drop anything. It would have been nothing like Japan who had nothing.
I agree. Also by 1946 we would be seeing better jet intercepters from the Germans, and we're assuming that the German industry is in better shape that otl. Maybe without the huge losses in the East, we might not also see the huge drain in skilled Luftwaffe pilots as we saw in otl.
What I can see in the use of nuclear weapons is for tactical use. Without the long distance to cover, success rate is going to be higher and might be able to avoid the moral issues that arose after the atomic bombings of Japan. Radiation for troops is going to be a huge factor, but it seems that the military didn't really care for that till the late 50s. By 1946, assuming the nuclear R&D went somewhat per otl, the US should have a dozen or so atomic weapons so might be willing to use it for tactical use that otl.
What I can see in the use of nuclear weapons is for tactical use. Without the long distance to cover, success rate is going to be higher and might be able to avoid the moral issues that arose after the atomic bombings of Japan. Radiation for troops is going to be a huge factor, but it seems that the military didn't really care for that till the late 50s. By 1946, assuming the nuclear R&D went somewhat per otl, the US should have a dozen or so atomic weapons so might be willing to use it for tactical use that otl.
Agreed. The crucial element is the nukes, and without solving that I just don't think 46 could happen. You can't find a plausible way of getting a nuclear deterrent so you we have to come up with a reasons the US wouldn't use the nukes to make it possible. Perhaps some kind of delay in production might force the US into Operation Downfall without nukes and then when they are developed a decision is taken not to use them with US troops on the ground. The same argument holds in Europe. A lot of 'what ifs' in there though.
With an early POD eliminating that 'fool of a corporal' the German military could easily last to 46, hell as everyone knows they could have won it in any number of scenarios. But nothing can change the fact that the US would and could pummel them into the next dimension at some point after 45.
Hard, yes. Undoable, no.
There are any number of tactics that could allow a single bombers to make a successful attack. frex:from using allied night fighters (like the exceptional P-61 or the equally excellent Beaufighter) to defeat the German night fighter network with massive dispersal of 'window" to screw up the German radars. Brute force method, but it would work.
Bavarian Raven
Banned
u guys are also missing a point about german retaliations, u are all using hindsight. during the war the allies did not know the germans did not have massive chemical/biological weapons stored away...
Suppose the bomb is dropped on Japan to end the Pacific war like OTL. The Germans see this and claim that they have their own atomic devices and will use them against the allies if they bring A-bombs into the European theatre. Essentially,the Germans are bluffing,but would the allies blink? Thoughts?
u guys are also missing a point about german retaliations, u are all using hindsight. during the war the allies did not know the germans did not have massive chemical/biological weapons stored away...
The point is, no one cared if the Germans had all the chemical weapons they could build stored (biologicals were a fairly new game & the UK had the best bio-weapon of the era) and ready for use.
The Allies did as well, and unlike the Germans, the Allies had the ability to actually deliver them onto German soil. German ability to do the same to the Allies was much more limited, attacking the UK had huge problems, as I noted in an earlier post, and attacking the United States was impossible in any practical sense.
It seems that the stunning power of the Atomic Bomb is being given short shrift. The 20kt Nagasaki weapon may seem like a firecracker in our day & age, where 25MT weapons are readily available to the major powers, and there is serious tactical discussion surrounding use of Kinetic Energy Penetrators launched from LEO, but at the time it was the door to Hell being cracked open.
Suppose the bomb is dropped on Japan to end the Pacific war like OTL. The Germans see this and claim that they have their own atomic devices and will use them against the allies if they bring A-bombs into the European theatre. Essentially,the Germans are bluffing,but would the allies blink? Thoughts?
Very unlikely. If Germany was still in the game, the Bomb would have been used there. If the Germans were still in the war in 1946, which is vanishingly unlikely, the U.S. would have FOURTEEN weapons available, with an additional TWENTY-TWO ready in the coming year.
In the case of a German survival, the U.S. would not be prepared to use as many men as IOTL for the invasion of Japan. A surviving Germany would also remove the urgency that existed in 1945 to knock the Japanese out fast, before the USSR could claim part of the Home Islands, since the Soviets would still be firmly engaged against the Wehrmacht. This means the Japanese are, as noted earlier, simply starved and firebombed into oblivion.
Even a German threat about having a Bomb would be weak. The Allies knew what it took to carry a bomb to the target and the Germans didn't have anything that could. Early bombs were exceptionally heavy due to the electronics available during the period, and there was no way to change that part of the package. The Allies also had far better control over their sky than the Reich had over Germany, something that would only improve as time passed. The Allies built planes, the Germans drew pictures of planes that, even if built, the Allies aircraft would outperform the German ones(frex: Me-262 vs. Meteor f.4 or P-80).
Germany in mid 1946 would be like a guy stuck in the bottom of a well throwing rocks up at five guys standing around the well's opening with cases of dynamite and plenty of time on their hands. The result is preordained.
Every day after mid-May 1945 just makes the post war period worse for the German people.