WI: Vikings meet a Pagan/Heathen Anglo Saxon England?

Sevarics

Sevarics

What if traditional Anglo-Saxon Germanic Paganism/Heathenry were still a prominent force in England when the Northmen began their raids on England? This can either be due to a delayed conversion where (a) the Anglo Saxon kings and aristocrats haven’t converted yet or (b) they just recently converted but most of the Anglo Saxons are still practicing their traditional faiths.

Either way, what impact does the arrival of Germanic Pagan/Heathen Northmen have on England?
 

brokenrobot00

Well in situation A I'm not sure the Norse come to England or they come for a totally different reason. They started raiding England mostly because the monasteries and church buildings are easy pickings being full of gold and riches but not heavily defended. Would the Norsemen be raiding Germanic Temples in this timeline or maybe they're introduced as mercenaries by Anglo-Saxon Kings. Even in scenario B it's hard to imagine a place like Lindisfarne existing if it's just the nobility practicing Christianity, it would be closer to a power center so as to serve the elite and would be better defended.
 

PBJ

I started writing a response regarding the impact a still-heathen England would have on the Norse and related pagan cultures of continental Europe, but realized that without the Anglo-Saxons converting to Christianity, the cultural makeup of Europe will be massively different. Assuming the Gregorian mission fails, and any subsequent missions also fail to make any progress, the fate of continental Germany will be very different. Frankish missions in the region were heavily dependent on Anglo-Saxon missionaries to help communicate with and understand the remaining heathen tribal confederations.

So with England remaining pagan, that means no Saint Bontiface, no Alcuin of York, no Anglo-Saxon mission. That means the Pippinids/Carolingians (or Merovingians, depending on how things play out) will need to spend even more time and effort to subdue Germany proper, as it won't just be the Old Saxons opposing them this time.
 

Deleted member 114175

If Norse arrived in a pagan England, they would form something like Kievan Rus', with a small contingent of Norse mercenaries, guards, and traders ruling over a partially united federation of principalities. Soon, like the East Slavs of Kievan Rus', the Anglo-Saxons would become preeminent again inside the Norse conquered territory, but their land would be re-named after the Norse settlers, like Russians retained the name Rus'. However, the Anglo-Saxons wouldn't be Norse for long. They would probably eventually convert to Christianity later on down the line, which would give an opportunity to Celts or Franks to extend their influence in the area.
 

Optical_Illusion

Banned
Echo the comment on early viking raids being conditional on relatively rich, relatively undefended monasteries. You might still see the same incentives to settle, if England continues to have any relatively rich places and good farmland, I think they probably would, but might not if they lacked the experience and structure that came about because of earlier raiding on monasteries.
 

Just a Rube

I'd also note that it's not at all clear that the Anglo-Saxon pagans and the Vikings would identify with each other anyway. Sure, we recognize them as having common roots, but they've been separated for centuries, and developed differently (to the extent they could be described as organized at all, which is a different question). And both pagans and Christians are likely to be less than sympathetic to foreign raiders coming around looting and pillaging, regardless of their nominal faith.

But as noted, a pagan Anglo-Saxon England means a very different environment anyway (both in the British Isles and the Continent), so butterflies will be flapping wildly.
 
The Professor

The Professor

Noscoper said:
Christian attempts at conversion and shared religion with the Norse.
Click to expand...
Unlikely. Christian conversion OTL didn't promote unity among the Angle and Saxon kingdoms, before and after, and Germanic religious traditions were a lot looser compared to Christianity.
 
The Professor

The Professor

Noscoper said:
I imagine the both the nobles and the peasants would prefer to be ruled by someone of the same religion .

So what
Click to expand...
To put it another way: there was no same religion. There were a set of shared traditions and beliefs but nothing was organised nor centralised such that members of a cult of Woden would declare they were of the same faith as a cult of Odin.
Thus while Christian nobles may want Christian peasants and vice versa, followers of the Ese/Aesir aren't that bothered.
 

Kerney

Saxons note the Norse have some new fancy ships.
They bribe some Norsemen to show them how to build said boats.
Saxon Raiders use their superior knowledge of local waters and raid go Viking on the Irish and Welsh Monastaries, which are soon Saxon. Norse raids are directed more against the Holy Roman Empire and the French, sometime with Saxon support.

Anglo Saxons are seen as the "Western" branch of the broader "Germanic" rather than "Scandinavian" Viking Age.

Thought: For the Anglo-Saxons to remain Pagan, perhaps they've come up with a cultural "solution" for Christian Missionaries or said Missionaries screwed up, creating lasting emnity. Either way, perhaps the anti Christian Meme is spread.
 
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