While the Battle of Tours in 732 is seen as a pivotal moment in halting the Muslim expansion into Western Europe, it actually may be overshadowed in importance by the earlier Battle of Toulouse in 721.

According to historian Ian Meadows, after the swift conquest of Iberia into the Umayyad Caliphate, the Muslims set their sights north of the Pyrenees. Al-Samh ibn Malik, Governor-General of Al-Andalus, raised an Arab-Berber army to conquer the region of Aquitaine, ruled by Duke Eudes. Eudes, sensing the impending danger, fled the city of Toulouse to seek aid from the rest of his Duchy for defense. He even appealed to Charles Martel, Mayor of the Palace in the Frankish Kingdom, for aid, but Charles refused. Al-Samh’s army saw success besieging the walls of Toulouse, and Toulouse came close to surrending. However, Eudes returned with an army of his own, and hurled himself at Al-Samh’s rear. The result was a devastating defeat for the Muslims, who retreated to Narbonne, Al-Samh himself badly wounded and dying shortly after. The Muslims would never make another serious attempt to take Aquitaine (barring Tours, which was more of a raid and not an actual invasion).

What if the Muslims had taken Toulouse? Part of what made Eudes’ attack so successful is that Al-Samh concentrated his entire forces entirely on besieging the city, leaving him exposed to attack. He also had very few horsemen who could counter Eudes’ army. Perhaps Al-Samh is not surprised by Eudes, and is able to fight him off and finish the siege. Or maybe Eudes never reaches Toulouse in time to relieve it. With Toulouse captured, Al-Samh could conquer the rest of Aquitaine, and establish Umayyad control over the region through treaties and alliances with local Christians as he had in Septimania. If this rule holds, Islam could spread into Aquitaine. With Aquitaine subjugated, would the Muslims continue onwards into the rest of Southern France, perhaps raiding/conquering Provence next? Could they establish a stable base of operations in the South of France, and defend it from future Frankish attacks (especially from Charles Martel)? And even if Muslim control over Aquitaine is only temporary, could it help consolidate Al-Andalus by cutting Asturias off from the rest of Christian Europe?
 
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especially from Charles Martel)?
Long term the doctrine was initiative vases if the front lines are on Aquitaine/South France that keep a cushion in Andalus and weaken the mountain kingdoms,long term depends what battles happens and who stop one first,if the Muslim destroy the peppinads... that become a free for all
 
Long term the doctrine was initiative vases if the front lines are on Aquitaine/South France that keep a cushion in Andalus and weaken the mountain kingdoms,long term depends what battles happens and who stop one first,if the Muslim destroy the peppinads... that become a free for all
How could the Muslims destroy the Peppinids? Also how long could the Umayyads hold Southern France before the inevitable Berber Revolt and Abbasid Revolution, and of course the Franks?
 
How could the Muslims destroy the Peppinids? Also how long could the Umayyads hold Southern France before the inevitable Berber Revolt and Abbasid Revolution, and of course the Franks?
Nothing is inevitable..till it happen, butterflies would affect everything now
 
Nothing is inevitable..till it happen, butterflies would affect everything now
What are some potential butterflies of a victory at Toulouse in 721? I feel that the Berber Revolt is still quite likely, because of the Umayyad’s policy of Arab supremacism, even above other Muslims. Especially because the Umayyads would probably need increased Berber manpower to hold both Al-Andalus AND Aquitaine, though they might start changing their policies out of pure practicality? Like maybe recruiting native Hispanians and Aquitainians? If the revolt still happens this could provide the opportunity for the Franks to reclaim the lands north of the Pyrenees.
 
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Also is there a potential for the Umayyads to continue past Aquitaine into the rest of Francia?
It's possible but it'd be arduous to take and hold. The advantage that Septimania has is that it's connected to the Mediterranean Sea by port, which makes logistics less burdensome. However, Aquitania is more distant and does not have this advantage which makes supply more difficult. Even further north than that, such as into Neustria, Austrasia, Swabia and to an extent Burgundy and it becomes increasingly untenable to hold in the long run. Infrastructure of the local area had decayed for a while by that time, and the Umayyads may not have time to repair it. It's quite possible during an alternate Fitna, that those areas either break away under native Christian lords or local Muslim commanders take control.
 
It's possible but it'd be arduous to take and hold. The advantage that Septimania has is that it's connected to the Mediterranean Sea by port, which makes logistics less burdensome. However, Aquitania is more distant and does not have this advantage which makes supply more difficult. Even further north than that, such as into Neustria, Austrasia, Swabia and to an extent Burgundy and it becomes increasingly untenable to hold in the long run. Infrastructure of the local area had decayed for a while by that time, and the Umayyads may not have time to repair it. It's quite possible during an alternate Fitna, that those areas either break away under native Christian lords or local Muslim commanders take control.
There’s not much distance between Narbonne and Toulouse, right? Or whatever port is closest to Toulouse.
 
How long would Muslim Aquitaine last though?
Depends others butterflies, a lot of things, like we need to account all those, could last 50/100/200+ depends what happens to the Ummayds, when and how the Aquitaine Muslim are stopped, which rivals are facing, if Andalus support them or abandon them...and so on
 
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