These two questions might be completely unrelated but, what if the U.S. Annexed Okinawa at the end of the Second World War, could this set a precedent of overt U.S. imperialism in Asia, what would be the international ramifications. If the us won in Vietnam is it possible that it would annex Vietnam. How would this sit among the international community in the midst of decolonization and how would china and the soviets respond to this increased U.S. Foothold in Asia.
WI: U.S. Annexation of Okinawa or Vietnam
- Thread starter Iudeus Rex britannicus
- Start date
I don't see why the US would want to hold on to Okinawa; we went so far as to invest billions of dollars rebuilding and giving amnesty to war criminals to try and court Japan into our sphere of influence, trying to keep Okinawa would just alienate them and make the other efforts pointless.
Maybe if you had a Russian-occupied Japan, or one that's fallen into the Russian camp, America would be more eager to hold on to the islands. But I don't see how you could do either.
Maybe if you had a Russian-occupied Japan, or one that's fallen into the Russian camp, America would be more eager to hold on to the islands. But I don't see how you could do either.
TinyTartar
Banned
No way for Vietnam.
Okinawa being a US Territory? Its possible, and I'd buy that if Russian influence in China was greater than OTL with bases, including naval bases, seen by US intelligence as clearly Russian enterprises.
Another way I see this happening is if Japanese war crimes towards Americans specifically are even worse than OTL. If there is a Rape of Manila on the scale of the one at Nanking, or a mass execution of American POWs numbering in the tens of thousands done publicly as retaliation for bombing, or if the Japanese terror weapons that they tried OTL end up working and killing hundreds or thousands of American mainland civilians, than I can see the US simply giving them the Nazi treatment and not doing ANYTHING to coddle them, liquidating all leadership, emperor included. And when this occurs, we might not care about their views on Okinawa and decide to keep it.
Okinawa being a US Territory? Its possible, and I'd buy that if Russian influence in China was greater than OTL with bases, including naval bases, seen by US intelligence as clearly Russian enterprises.
Another way I see this happening is if Japanese war crimes towards Americans specifically are even worse than OTL. If there is a Rape of Manila on the scale of the one at Nanking, or a mass execution of American POWs numbering in the tens of thousands done publicly as retaliation for bombing, or if the Japanese terror weapons that they tried OTL end up working and killing hundreds or thousands of American mainland civilians, than I can see the US simply giving them the Nazi treatment and not doing ANYTHING to coddle them, liquidating all leadership, emperor included. And when this occurs, we might not care about their views on Okinawa and decide to keep it.
Why 1945? Why not 1854? 
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/soc.history.what-if/tPkvLVm5WUk/Rh9UM1FUDYcJ
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/soc.history.what-if/tPkvLVm5WUk/Rh9UM1FUDYcJLol.
Vietnam isn't going to happen. The political fall out from the attempt would be nightmarish. Not to mention the guerillas. I doubt any President would even attempt it. Okinawa is possible on the other hand, but the Japanese aren't going to be happy about it.
bookmark95
Banned
I don't think so. Considering the Philippines got its independence around this time, I don't the US would be seen as annexing more territory.
Tallest Skil
Banned
Why 1945? Why not 1854?
Now that’s interesting.
The US bought part of North Borneo in the 1840s, if memory serves, giving it back to Britain roughly a month later. We didn’t have a Pacific coast yet, so we didn’t have any way to effectively get to or protect it.
Imagine if we’d kept it…
Still the USA keeped Okinawa under occupation till 1972. I even remember a Group of predictions from the mid-sixties, were Okinawa becomes the 52th US-state in the 1980th. So there must be at least some attidute at this time, that the USA Keep Okinawa.
France would be incredibly pissed off at annexing Vietnam when America just told off the French for trying to restore colonial rule.
Exactly. And to build on that, above all else it would seem extremely hypocritical, especially because such a situation would not likely be put to vote, making the U.S appear the same as any European colonial power, and if it were the people would almost wholeheartedly reject joining the Union. The U.S would be ostracized and shunned by much of the international community, and likely even its own allies, as a result.
The people of Okinawa must want to become a part of the US for US to annex Okinawa. The people of Okinawa themselves must convince the American congress for the annexation to even become a consideration.
The US never had plans to annex any part of Vietnam. South Vietnam at its worst was a client state of the United States. It was supposed to be bulwark against Communism in the region like South Korea was in East Asia. A ''free'' and vibrant South Vietnam was better suited to accomplish this.
Not to mention it would be counterintuitive to American's plan to battle Communist influence around the world. According to Communist propaganda America wasn't trying to create democracy, it was trying to create neo-colonialism under the guise of fighting communism and protecting democracies to further its economic interests. By annexing territories for no good reason it would wholeheartedly feeding into the propaganda and making the propaganda appear to be true.
The US never had plans to annex any part of Vietnam. South Vietnam at its worst was a client state of the United States. It was supposed to be bulwark against Communism in the region like South Korea was in East Asia. A ''free'' and vibrant South Vietnam was better suited to accomplish this.
Not to mention it would be counterintuitive to American's plan to battle Communist influence around the world. According to Communist propaganda America wasn't trying to create democracy, it was trying to create neo-colonialism under the guise of fighting communism and protecting democracies to further its economic interests. By annexing territories for no good reason it would wholeheartedly feeding into the propaganda and making the propaganda appear to be true.
Vietnam by 1970 was about ... 45 million people !
Annexing a 45 million people with such a different culture, located 14,000 kilometers away from your own country, would produce ... no effect. The war would still go on.
John Farson
Banned
Yah, Alan Moore didn't really think this through, giant blue atomic based superhero or no.
Actually, it would be hilarious if one consequence of Manhattan leaving Earth was the Vietnam War re-erupting in full blast...
Do you mean simply a precedent for imperialism during the Cold War? Because otherwise, surely Commodore Perry and, more directly, the Philippines, already set precedents for overt US imperialism in Asia?
Anyway, I can think of at least one good thing that would come out of continued US control of Okinawa: No one in this TL would have ever heard of the Senkaku Islands dispute.
Actually, it was leased in 1865 by the Consul to Brunei, and it was the section of North Borneo that wasn't ceded to Sulu before that. The US kept it for about a year before divesting themselves and sold it to another private company in Hong Kong, who attempted to exploit the colony until 1875. They then approach Austria-Hungary to purchase it, and only then, when A-H turns them down, they go to the British.
It was fatigue from the Civil War that made North Borneo dead in the water. But, perhaps, you might get a scenario where Japan is more intransigient and doesn't open up, and the US goes forward with some of Perry's recommendations, but consults for a base in Okinawa, framing it as a guarantee of the islands' independence or somesuch. Then butterfly the civil war some, perhaps occurring earlier, perhaps being shorter, and with the US in better shape you can see a few other small ports spread throughout the region. If the US keeps a light hand, and merely maintains them as protectorates/associated states/whatever, who knows what might happen.
More likely to have Philippine annexation than Vietnamese annexation. Okinawa annexation will happen if Coronet and Downfall occur. Count on that. It will be like Iwo Jima writ large and America will want to keep it for all eternity.