WI: The Ottoman Empire converts to Christianity?
- Thread starter Aaaaasima
- Start date
Perhaps if Armenian Christian missionaries had converted the Seljuk Turks before the beginning of the Islamic rise, any subsequent invasion of Anatolia by them would have been merely a change of Orthodox rulers. Possibly eventually resulting in a Turkish Emporor of the Romans. (Hows that for butterflies?)
Then they wouldn't have been able to conquer Persia, which they used as their jumping pad into Anatolia. Also, if the Anatolian Turks are Christian, none of them would have the Arab-derived name of Osman. Thus, there would be no Ottoman Empire named after him.
Red Orm
Banned
I don't know about your first bit, but there are plenty of Arab Christians with Arab-derived names.
Then it would fail to be an Anatolian Turkish empire. It would just be an Arab Christian state ruled by someone named Uthman.
Red Orm
Banned
I don't get you. If a Muslim Anatolian Turk can have an Arab-derived name, why can't a Christian Anatolian Turk have an Arab-derived name?
Maybe a more successful Timur or a more lasting Ottoman Interregnum results in a rump Ottomans stuck in their predominantly Christian territories in Europe, somehow resulting in the Osmanlis converting to Christianity.
Red Orm
Banned
In this time period (and today as well) Arab Christians live from Sinai down to Arabia and up to Damascus at least. The Turks had a huge presence in these areas, and Christianity's holiest city had plenty of Arab (and other) Christians living in it.
That strikes me as unnecessarily pedantic. Even if the Ottoman Empire wouldn't be called the Ottoman Empire TTL, we could still get an Ottoman-analogue which, for the sake of easy communication, we can refer to as "the Ottoman Empire".
The Borgia's Turkish protege converts to Christianity and is implemented as the Holy Turkish Emperor
Okay, that makes sense, but a POD that keeps the Turks from being Muslim would severely restrict Islam's growth, as well as the growth of the Arab populations to encompass Mesopotamia and other Aramaic-speaking regions. So, with such a POD, the predominant population around the holy land would be Aramaic. Which would still be Semitic, but not Arab, and without the specific name "Uthman" to be exported.
About the only possibility would be a "Saint Muhammad" scenario, featuring the Arabs converting the Turks to Christianity.
Deleted member 97083
During the Crusade of Varna, the Ottoman sultan Murad II, Kasim Pasha the beylerbey of Rumelia, and Turahan Bey the governor of Thessaly, burned down the city of Sofia retreating from the Crusaders. However, what if they did so too late, and the Crusaders trapped them in the city? The Ottoman sultanate would pass to Mehmed II who was only 12, and the two main military leaders of the Ottoman Empire in Europe, would be dead. In this case, the Ottomans would be placed in a dire situation.
At the same time, the Mamluks and Karamanids raided the Ottoman territories in Anatolia. They were pushed back and accepted an Ottoman ceasefire. But if the Ottoman army is decimated in Bulgaria that might change.
Meanwhile, the Byzantines had an Ottoman pretender, Şehzade Orhan Çelebi, who was so loyal to the Byzantines that he fought on their side against the Siege of Constantinople in 1453. If Hunyadi wins the Crusade, then the Polish and Hungarian contingent will grab territory from the Ottomans in Europe. Thessalonica or at least some territory will be granted to the Byzantines, while the Venetians and Genoese will take their share. The Karamanids would devastate Anatolia. At this point, the Byzantines can unleash their pretender, Orhan Çelebi, on the Ottomans.
Mehmed II is killed by nobles trying to take the throne, or by Orhan Çelebi. Orhan takes the throne as a Byzantine puppet. From here, the Byzantines can incorporate the Ottoman Empire as a vassal state and influence it. Some sultan in this completely demoralized, restricted Ottoman Empire can convert to Christianity, either Orhan or a later pro-Byzantine noble. By that point it might be the 1500s. In any case, from here the Christian Ottoman empire perhaps in union with the Byzantine empire, can begin to recover although in a completely different form than the original empire.
At the same time, the Mamluks and Karamanids raided the Ottoman territories in Anatolia. They were pushed back and accepted an Ottoman ceasefire. But if the Ottoman army is decimated in Bulgaria that might change.
Meanwhile, the Byzantines had an Ottoman pretender, Şehzade Orhan Çelebi, who was so loyal to the Byzantines that he fought on their side against the Siege of Constantinople in 1453. If Hunyadi wins the Crusade, then the Polish and Hungarian contingent will grab territory from the Ottomans in Europe. Thessalonica or at least some territory will be granted to the Byzantines, while the Venetians and Genoese will take their share. The Karamanids would devastate Anatolia. At this point, the Byzantines can unleash their pretender, Orhan Çelebi, on the Ottomans.
Mehmed II is killed by nobles trying to take the throne, or by Orhan Çelebi. Orhan takes the throne as a Byzantine puppet. From here, the Byzantines can incorporate the Ottoman Empire as a vassal state and influence it. Some sultan in this completely demoralized, restricted Ottoman Empire can convert to Christianity, either Orhan or a later pro-Byzantine noble. By that point it might be the 1500s. In any case, from here the Christian Ottoman empire perhaps in union with the Byzantine empire, can begin to recover although in a completely different form than the original empire.
Red Orm
Banned
I'm pretty sure that the Arab cultural and to a much less extent ethnic replacement of Aramaics happened during the first Muslim Conquests, about 400 years before the Turks entered Mesopotamia, the Levant, and Anatolia in any meaningful numbers. Arab populations had already populated Mesopotamia by then. Despite most of those Arabs being Muslim, there's nothing to stop the Turks from becoming Christian for some reason.
Deleted member 97083
Well no, those areas were still massively Aramaic. There was a significant Arab presence though.
Anyway, to convert Seljuk to Christianity while making Osman a Turkish name, just have an Arab Christian priest or merchant named Uthman go to the Oghuz Turkic territories.
Sticking close as possible to history: After the collapse of the Sultanate of Rum, a group of Christian Turks led by a man named Osman (maybe born to a Muslim father and a Christian mother?) carve out a territory for themselves. They prosper. Yadda Yadda, relatively good relations with the Byzantines and Latins, Yadda Yadda, they take over Anatolia.
So the Ottoman Empire would be the Byzantine version of Russia's Kasim Khanate?