WI: The Communists had accepted Reagan?

According to the book Napoleon's Hemorrhoids: And Other Small Events That Changed The World, Ronald Reagan wanted to join the Communist Party in 1938, in part because a lot of his friends in Hollywood were members. The Communists, apparently thought Reagan was "a feather brain... a flake who couldn't be trusted with a political opinion for more than twenty minutes." so they didn't allow him to join.

WI they had allowed Reagan into the party? Would his political career be over before it started? Would the Great Communicator get caught up in the McCarthy-era Red Scare? And who, if anyone, would replace the Gipper as the person who reinvigorated/became a saint of American conservatism?
 

Shackel

Banned
Well, they were right.

Then he became the epitome of Republicanism. Funny, ain't it?

I think Ronald Reagan would've just gotten kicked from his job, and he most likely would have died/gotten killed somewhere on the streets.
 
WI they had allowed Reagan into the party? Would his political career be over before it started?
Yes

Would the Great Communicator get caught up in the McCarthy-era Red Scare?
Yes

And who, if anyone, would replace the Gipper as the person who reinvigorated/became a saint of American conservatism?
Probably no one
American conservatism's rebirth from the ashes is probably butterflied away unless maybe something similar to the President Goldwater TL happens, but that's unlikely. Only Reagan had the charisma to make his ideology attractive to those who were screwed over by it.
 
Nixon wasn't a whacky libertarian, nor did he even pretend to be. So, even if there are tea partiers (I doubt), Nixon won't be a hero.

Now, now. Don't just all libertarians by the actions of People who Party with Tea (I wonder if any of them actually drink the stuff). Fine, then they'll just have to rally behind Ike, or Hoover, or Roosevelt, or even Lincoln.
 
Now, now. Don't just all libertarians by the actions of People who Party with Tea (I wonder if any of them actually drink the stuff). Fine, then they'll just have to rally behind Ike, or Hoover, or Roosevelt, or even Lincoln.
I'm not; I'm talking about the whacky ones (I edited it down to that; originally I said "Whacko Libertarians", but changed it because I didn't want it to be taken as me talking about all Libertarians rather than the whacky ones). Nixon wasn't a libertarian, let alone a whacky one.
I don't know why the teapartiers would rally behind Ike, who'd be even less of a whacky libertarian than Nixon. Hoover maybe. TR and Lincoln only because of borderline misunderstanding of those historical figures and anything they stood for, which is possible and happens (basically in the way the modern GOP still tries to claim those two, even though the modern GOP is now conservative and it's base is largely the descendants of southern Democrats).

But, anyway, I'm getting off on a tangent. Without Reagan, the Conservatives will have a hell of a time. If everything goes the same 'til 1964, the conservative wing of the GOP will have no one to take up the banner and lead the faction after Goldwater's downfall in that area, or rather it'll either be a weaker leader or just still Goldwater. This hurts the Conservative's chances of finding a national candidate other than just jumping on a Nixon bandwagon if he still runs again.

Nixon was the kind of guy who could switch from liberal to conservative if it got him elected to office. He's a realist.
Still not a libertarian, though.
 
TR would replace Reagan in the Teabagger consciousness. Hoover would be political suicide to invoke, and Ike and Nixon were too close to the center. TR has enough positive connotations, and, as Norton said, the public can misunderstand what he really did.

Assuming the political developments go as IOTL until the Carter administration, well, we may see the political parties of 1980 fracture. You have a Carter wing of the Democrats, another wing of the Democrats who really don't want to be associated with Carter, a Conservative wing of the Republicans, and a Nixonian Centrist wing.
 
I think the patron saint of "tea party conservatives" ITTL is more likely to be Thomas Jefferson than Theodore Roosevelt.
 
I think the patron saint of "tea party conservatives" ITTL is more likely to be Thomas Jefferson than Theodore Roosevelt.

I'm not so sure. The OTL rise of the Conservative Movement under Reagan was aided by the rise of the Religious Right. Jefferson doesn't strike me as a likely patron saint of their's.

But, you never know. They hijacked him IOTL, so maybe you're onto something.
 
I'm not so sure. The OTL rise of the Conservative Movement under Reagan was aided by the rise of the Religious Right. Jefferson doesn't strike me as a likely patron saint of their's.

But, you never know. They hijacked him IOTL, so maybe you're onto something.

Like you said there's always the possibility that there is some misinterpretation going on, and I can't think of another popular historical figure who's writings and political opinion can be more easily connected to modern small government conservatism.
 

The Dude

Banned
I seriously doubt that TR would be seen as a saint by the Tea Party. After all, he was a progressive, not a conservative. Remember how Glenn Beck hates progressives. Jefferson is a more likely option.
 
There was plenty of intellectual capital in the conservative movement after Goldwater and anyone who thinks that without Reagan the conservative movement goes nowhere is either nuts, or (more likely on this forum) seriously underestimates the emotions and beliefs in America that Reagan tapped into to gain support. The rise of the conservative movement was both a move against the collectivist big government sentiments of the past generation, as well as the left wing counter culture movement that had rose in opposition of it. Reagan was a fabulous communicator, but he was not the master mind of the entire movement and without him, while it is plausible to think that the movement might be less successful or miss an element we perceive as important to it today, we would see some one else take his place of broadcasting the message and a different man being given the chance by Americans to show what conservatism can accomplish. It might not happen in the 80s but the Conservative movement would rise to prominence.

It is this liberal fallacy that without Reagan singing his siren song to call Americans away from liberalism, people would have stayed with it and the Republican party would be the centrist, not as left as those Democrats, we like congresses plan but it is just a little to much left, Democrat agenda rubber stamping party it was in the fifties. It gives Reagan (while I do think he played a very important role in the rise of conservatism) way to much credit, and ignores the fact that a sizable group of Americans were fed up with the Democrat's complete dominance of of the government for a generation, its liberal agenda, and the Republicans being a wet blanket party that essentially let the Democrats do what they wanted with minimal opposition.

The anti-government feelings that already existed were what propelled Reagan to the White House, and in Britain propelled Thatcher to the position of Prime Minister. This was a large tide of feeling not isolated in the USA and so with out Reagan's presence Conservatism will have a tougher time but will still become an important movement. If parts of small government philosophy can be successful in the UK, it can definitely see progress in the USA.

It is interesting to think about what it will do to his career though, he is done as a political force, and as it has been pointed out a movement showing similarity to the Tea Party will have to find another idol. I do agree that they could easily construe and ignore what was done by men like TR and Tom Jefferson, since unfortunately many Americans on all sides of the political spectrum have a poor understanding of what these men really did and believed.
 
I think the patron saint of "tea party conservatives" ITTL is more likely to be Thomas Jefferson than Theodore Roosevelt.

The Democratic-Republican Party, which dropped the -Republican part by the time of Jackson. You should try dropping that on one of the more rabid supporters, just to see if their minds implode.
 

tqm111

Banned
Reagan would've probably undergone the same conversion he did when he did. From left to right. So, probably not much would've changed. Communism was morally and intelectually bankrupt, he probably would've seen that and move on.
 
Reagan would've probably undergone the same conversion he did when he did. From left to right. So, probably not much would've changed. Communism was morally and intelectually bankrupt, he probably would've seen that and move on.

Ah, but his resume would forever bear the bloody mark of the CPUSA.
 
Well, Reagan could end up on the ex-communist circuit eventually. Of course, he'll never be President obviously.

All else equal, President Kemp in the 80's?
 
Unless we have a scenario which Reagan would have genuinely embraced its ideology, he probably would have not stayed in too long. He wouldn't be the first figure to have switched ideologies- the problem would be the long lasting ramifications from having been in the organisation like PE said, which would have not reflected too well during HUAC's look into Hollywood (and given his rivals an opportunity to take him down a notch). He probably would have not been able to land that position in GE's TV show either.
 
Hmmmmmmmmmm...one AH writer suggested (possibly jokingly) in a published AH that McCarthy could have been a communist plant. Perhaps Reagan may actually have been a Communist plant whose nudging America to the Right, so as to make Communism more palatable was too successful?
(Ironically, at least one obscure right-winger wrote at least two book lambasting Reagan as a liberal. One's title was "Here's the Rest of Him", a pun on Reagan's own autobiography...
Here's one reviewer's take on a later book on Reagan by that guy, entitled "The Counterfeit Candidate"...
http://www.pitch.com/content/printVersion/1126733/ )
 
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