WI: The Amazon Nation Survives, Prospers ...

[RealityBYTES]

Everyone:

According to myths and legends, there once was a nation where women were the dominant force, not men.

This matriarchy's (or plural, since some myths and legends point to another such nation of women in North Africa roughly where ancient Carthage was located) lands were said to have been within modern-day Turkey, on the Thermodon River near the shores of the Black Sea. So strong was this nation at one point that legend says it was able to attack ancient Greece and lay siege to a young Athens and, before that, war with Atlantis (the North African Amazons, at least). But it met its demise long before the birth of Jesus Christ, with the last Amazon Queen being mentioned as having met with Alexander the Great in a futile attempt to sire a daughter.

So what happens if the Amazon Nation not only survives, but thrives, into modern times? Would the roles of women across the world be any different than what they are today? How would history, wars and politics have been affected by the continued presence of the Amazons?

RealityBYTES

 

[Derek Jackson]

I think that the best chance of a Matriarchal, or indeed other very different system surviving contact with Greece and Rome is either for it to be on Malta, Nature’s great fortress or perhaps very distant on Ireland or even having gone to Iceland.

Plainly they would also need some kind or technological advantage too, perhaps better ships.

It occurs to me that a few defeats might cause such a society to be left alone. Rome left Britain alone for nearly a hundred years.

A legion beating an army of women would not be seen as achieving anything much. A further defeat by such an army would be a great humiliation. Perhaps they just leave them alone as Rome did many German tribes, Ireland and much of what is now Scotland.

 

[Superdude]

The thing is, men are naturally stronger and faster than women, so how would this place even exist?

 

[RealityBYTES]

Males certainly have inborn advantages when it comes to brawn, but with proper training and lifestyle choices, women can be quite tough physically as well. With that in mind, one cannot automatically discount a nation where women are the dominant element just because they're not as physically imposing as males.

The same can be applied when it comes to mental prowess. Both sexes seem to have their strengths and weaknesses.

It might help to know that when I think of an Amazon society, I'm *not* envisioning some all-female society. Rather, it's female dominated ... basically, a matriarchy instead of a patriarchy. Males would certainly have roles to fulfill in such a society, and not just for procreation purposes.

Regarding the actual WI potential of a surviving and prosperous Amazon Nation, yes, I agree that it's best it have the opportunity to develop and strengthen in relative, but not total, isolation. Having a veil of mystery about it might enhance their survival potential as well. Obviously, the former wasn't met in our timeline (that's what happens when a society is located in or near the "crossroads" of the ancient world), but the latter certainly continues to have a role even into modern times.

RealityBYTES

P.S. I read Steven Pressfield's "Last of the Amazons," which was the genesis for this topic.

 

[wkwillis]

Think gunpowder.

 

[RealityBYTES]

Gunpowder and cannons did the Ottomans good against Constantinople.

I guess I'm a bit surprised that it appears the idea of a matriarchy is a bit difficult to consider an ATL for. Perhaps it's because we're all in societies that definitely have patriarchal roots (and many of which continue to be overtly patriarchal).

Strictly considering the legendary Amazon Nation of our own history (or would they consider it "herstory"?), I don't think it would have been possible for them to survive and thrive, simply because of their location near the crossroads of the ancient world. Perhaps if they had been in a more isolated part of the world such as the Americas, Ireland, Cuba, Asian interior, or Australia they might have had a better chance of at least surviving into the 1500s CE.

RealityBYTES

 

[Susano]

*summons John up*
Cpme on, give us your usal speech how there has never been a matriarchal society ins ociety, and that for reasons
(it was him (Abdul), who usually says so ins uch discssions, wasnt it? )

 

[RealityBYTES]

*arches eyebrow, like Spock* Who is this John you speak of?

RealityBYTES

 

[Mayhem]

Let we not all forget the island of Lesbos (off the Turkish coast IRC, mebbe Greece), which was a matriarchal society. While the island and its matriarchal society may be no more (or not, I really don't know), it lives on in the word "Lesbian" (lit: someone from Lesbos), and in Catullus' Lesbian poems (the ones about the girl called Lesbia).

As for an ATL Lesbian society (One following the principles of Lesbos, matriarchy), they'd probably have a genetic feature which led to women being far more plentiful than men, with men and women still taking up traditional "provider/carer" roles, but the "surplus" women taking the role of warrior and leader, perhaps the less fertile ones, ruling with their superior knowledge and magical intuition, not forgetting their fantastic ability to become enraged at the slightest provocation...
Pity their army's only at it's greatest effectiveness once a month...

 

[Wozza]

I am not sure about Lesbos being a matriarchy. I always understood it was simply the presence of Sappho's girls school where they wrote erotic poetry.

 

[RealityBYTES]

That was my impression as well, Wozza.

RealityBYTES

P.S. Archaeologists have uncovered the graves of women in modern day Ukraine and Iran that contained weaponry, armor and other trinkets that seemingly indicate genuine power at some level w/i their respective societies.