WI: The 18th Amendment Fails?

What it says on the tin. What would happen if the 18th Amendment (which created Prohibition in the United States) either failed to pass the House/Senate (which, given the margins by which it did pass OTL, seems tough) or, having passed the Legislature, fails to be ratified by the States?

Would states implement local versions of Prohibition, or would the movement die out?
 
What it says on the tin. What would happen if the 18th Amendment (which created Prohibition in the United States) either failed to pass the House/Senate (which, given the margins by which it did pass OTL, seems tough) or, having passed the Legislature, fails to be ratified by the States?

Would states implement local versions of Prohibition, or would the movement die out?

Well, to be honest, crime wouldn't be as high as it was during OTL because a good bit of that was from Prohibition. I don't think much else would change than that, and no I don't think states would do that.
 
A few states might, but the effect will be negligible. The big butterfly is that the US won't be throwing away generations worth of skill and trade-craft and then having to start again from scratch. Big American beer brands wouldn't have the reputation of being barely recycled sewage.
Institutional knowledge counts for a lot. And there were plenty of German/Dutch/Belgian immigrants who knew what they were doing.
 

Driftless

Donor
Less developed organized crime? The illegal alcohol trade was a cash cow and required organization and ruthlessness.

A counterpart to that, perhaps a less developed FBI, or other national investigative services - at least till the run up to WW2.
 
I'll go along with a less-developed version of organized crime: by all accounts, prohibition essentially made it what it is and financed future expansion. The FBI? Not so sure: what we know now as the FBI came as a result of an overhaul of the scandal-riddled Bureau of Investigation (a thoroughly upright creation of TR, first headed by Charles Bonaparte, which became corrupt indeed during the Harding years) during Coolidge's tenure. Absent prohibition and assuming Harding's presidency and death played out as they IOTL (not difficult to imagine given any association is loose at most), I don't see much to change this.

I wonder if a side effect--namely, a more-or-less tacit grudging acceptance of the federal government become part of day-to-day life--came about as a function of prohibition that helped to make New Deal measures more acceptable? Granted, people would have bought nearly anything FDR said if there was any hope of relief, but still...also, one wonders if the general mentality of the public during prohibition led to relatively unbridled stock market speculation, inflating the bubble that burst in 1929? That is, without prohibition, would (ironically somewhat) a more conservative financial mentality have prevailed, yielding a lesser event--say, more of a recession--in 1929 that Hoover might conceivably have been able to handle and ride out, assuming he'd been elected?
 

Teshuvah

Banned
Some states may do a tad better during the early years of the Great Depression with liqour sales.

Beyond that, alcohol remains a state issue. There might be no national drinking age, depending on whether or not states lower it as IOTL. Some states will likely to continue to ban alcohol sales until the 60s or 70s.
 
Less developed organized crime? The illegal alcohol trade was a cash cow and required organization and ruthlessness.

I'll go along with a less-developed version of organized crime: by all accounts, prohibition essentially made it what it is and financed future expansion.

I must agree with these - Johnny Torio never gets to wack Dion O'Bannon while Capone never gets to wack Hymie Weiss, much less gets a shot at Bugs Moran at the SMC Cartage Company on Valentine's Day.

As for the FBI - they really got their start against the Barker/Karpis Gang, Baby Face Nelson, Pretty Boy Floyd and Dillinger and this was in the early 30's. So I still see them being formed with little change...
 
Note
Wiki said:
In January 1917, the 65th Congress convened, in which the dries outnumbered the wets by 140 to 64 in the Democratic Party and 138 to 62 among Republicans
and 46 of 48 states apparently ratified the amendment.

It's really hard to see how to stop it.
 
States already had local versions of Prohibition. Tennessee, for instance, had Prohibition before the rest of the country. If national Prohibition failed, states which hadn't already passed Prohibition laws would likely do so.
 
Some states may do a tad better during the early years of the Great Depression with liqour sales.

Beyond that, alcohol remains a state issue. There might be no national drinking age, depending on whether or not states lower it as IOTL. Some states will likely to continue to ban alcohol sales until the 60s or 70s.

States already had local versions of Prohibition. Tennessee, for instance, had Prohibition before the rest of the country. If national Prohibition failed, states which hadn't already passed Prohibition laws would likely do so.

What would the effects be of an ad-hoc state implemented Prohibition? I mean, if (for example) Ohio is "dry" and Pennsylvania is "wet", how does Ohio crack down on smuggling?
 
Well Prohibition was technically a success. It radically reduced drinking (the whole point of the policy.) Furthermore, it reduced the incidents of public drunkenness and number of crimes committed under the influence.

What would the effects be of an ad-hoc state implemented Prohibition? I mean, if (for example) Ohio is "dry" and Pennsylvania is "wet", how does Ohio crack down on smuggling?

Under 21st Amendment, states retained the right to have state based prohibition. It's a federal crime (a felony) to smuggle alcohol across state lines into a state with prohibition (there aren't any today). Thus, the federal government is already able to crackdown on this behavior.
 

Driftless

Donor
What would the effects be of an ad-hoc state implemented Prohibition? I mean, if (for example) Ohio is "dry" and Pennsylvania is "wet", how does Ohio crack down on smuggling?

There's still municipalities that are "dry" in several parts of the country. Ephraim, WI just vote to end the hundred plus year dry spell - and that's in resort country - lot's of alcohol consumption going on around them.
 
There's still municipalities that are "dry" in several parts of the country. Ephraim, WI just vote to end the hundred plus year dry spell - and that's in resort country - lot's of alcohol consumption going on around them.
There are plenty like that in southern NJ; i.e., municipalities where no alcohol is sold. However, as you may expect, there are no laws forbidding bringing in alcohol.

Getting back to the original point of this thread (sort of), states may well have ratified the amendment but whether or not they went beyond lip service is another matter. Funding for enforcement was in part dependent upon individual states. Maryland led the "I don't give a damn" parade by appropriating exactly zero for enforcement for the duration of the life of the 18th amendment.
 

Driftless

Donor
How would no Prohibition amendment affect the average citizens appreciation of law enforcement and government in general?

On one side, there was so much money to made, that corruption of the enforcers was a real problem. On the other side, the "swiss cheese" level of enforcement often made the enforcers look less than competent. To be sure, there's a lot more going on that plays a role in how folks view their civic entities.
 
There's still municipalities that are "dry" in several parts of the country. Ephraim, WI just vote to end the hundred plus year dry spell - and that's in resort country - lot's of alcohol consumption going on around them.

Old joke:
Bourbon County, Kentucky is "dry".
Christian County, Kentucky is "wet".

(Bourbon County isn't "dry" any more. Even when it had been there were distilleries -- they could make it there but you couldn't drink it there, except at the distillery itself.)
 
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