WI Stonewall doesn't die at Chancellorsville
- Thread starter PeterEzgo
- Start date
Try No Gettysburg Campaign...Longstreet goes West
or If Stonewall Jackson had fought at Gettysburg could the south have won the Battle?
Just two of many threads done on Jackson living.
This Forum does not rehash subjects that have already been discussed unless He who would start a thread has a new point of view.
Um, yes it does. Incessantly. If it didn't, discussion on anything to do with the Civil War, ancient Rome, Alexander the Great, and numerous other subjects would have dried up long ago. If you don't want to "rehash" it again, then why bother posting? If there is no interest in the subject, the thread will die a lonely natural death. No need to kill it prematurely in it's crib.
In answer to the poster's questions...
I doubt there would have been a Battle of Gettysburg at all, or at most, it would have been a relatively minor engagement. It is more likely that Jackson would have sided with Longstreet, who argued with Lee over the idea of fighting at Gettysburg (Longstreet wanted to disengage after the 1st day and find good defensive ground, forcing the Union Army to attack the Army of Northern Virginia). In that case, the whole campaign might have gone differently. Not necessarily victorious for the Confederates, but most likely less costly if they still ended up losing. Certainly there will be no Pickett's Charge or anything like that.
Thankfully, it does. There are constantly new members and new perspectives...or new ways to present an old point of view. Once a thread slips more than 3-4 pages to the rear it is usually lost and forgotten unless it gets bumped for some reason. It is, I suppose a pain to rehash a 10,000 word timeline one has already done if one wants to educate a newbie on one's past brilliance and eloquence, but thankfully that's what "copy and paste is for".
Robert and Zoomar
Which I believe to be mostly the case.
I was trying to point the OP to find threads that had covered this subject and bump them if he wished to discuss the subject or to post a new idea as to what would Have happened if Jackson had lived.
Which I believe to be mostly the case.
I was trying to point the OP to find threads that had covered this subject and bump them if he wished to discuss the subject or to post a new idea as to what would Have happened if Jackson had lived.
I have been involved in a number of discutions on this subject in the past. My thoughts are this:
No Gettysburg as Jackson will either agree with Longstreet and council Lee to withdraw from the battlefield before too many troop had been deployed or he will push his troops harder on the first day and capture the heights meanig that Meade, in typically sensible and logical fashion, will no be prepared to attack the confederates occupying the high ground and will withdraw himself.
I suggested once that Jackson, being one of Davis' favorites, might get offered command of the Army of Tennessee after Bragg blows it and resigns (this was in DMA's poll on the subject...though I have changed my opinion on cirtain generals since then). I suggested that he may be willing to throw his weight behind Cleburne's proposal to army and train the slaves, seeing as morally and military the right thing to do.
I got a bit carried away in that thread and suggested that Jackson, with Cleburne as a close second, could re-open the Misissippi theatre after Gettysburg and after Bragg had been thrashed at Chattanooga.
I have since grown of the Jackson-was-a-superman phase.
No Gettysburg as Jackson will either agree with Longstreet and council Lee to withdraw from the battlefield before too many troop had been deployed or he will push his troops harder on the first day and capture the heights meanig that Meade, in typically sensible and logical fashion, will no be prepared to attack the confederates occupying the high ground and will withdraw himself.
I suggested once that Jackson, being one of Davis' favorites, might get offered command of the Army of Tennessee after Bragg blows it and resigns (this was in DMA's poll on the subject...though I have changed my opinion on cirtain generals since then). I suggested that he may be willing to throw his weight behind Cleburne's proposal to army and train the slaves, seeing as morally and military the right thing to do.
I got a bit carried away in that thread and suggested that Jackson, with Cleburne as a close second, could re-open the Misissippi theatre after Gettysburg and after Bragg had been thrashed at Chattanooga.
I have since grown of the Jackson-was-a-superman phase.
Jackson not dying at Chancellorsville could have many different effects. One possible twist is vaguely similar to what takes place in the Newt Gingrich alternate history. Assuming that the fight at Gettysburg takes place as the first day occurred, leading up to the Union retreat through town to the heights, Jackson's attack may not succeed. An entire Union division, minus a reserve brigade, had entrenched on Cemetery and Culp's Hill since early afternoon, and there are few good staging positions from town to strike at that spot. Jackson's repulse might jolt Lee out of his determination to win at Gettysburg, but I don't believe that Lee can win a major victory against Meade in Pennsylvania.
As a military engineer and a native Pennsylvanian, Meade operated on very sound military lines, and had contingencies plans established from the moment he arrived in Gettysburg (Sickles would later use this against him). In all likelihood, Lee's lack of ammunition would probably force him to withdraw southwards to Virginia, especially if Meade falls back to the eminently sensible Pipe Creek line.
What, then, would be the effects of an invasion of the North that has no major battle? Would this be a moral victory for the South or the North, or would it have any effect?
As a military engineer and a native Pennsylvanian, Meade operated on very sound military lines, and had contingencies plans established from the moment he arrived in Gettysburg (Sickles would later use this against him). In all likelihood, Lee's lack of ammunition would probably force him to withdraw southwards to Virginia, especially if Meade falls back to the eminently sensible Pipe Creek line.
What, then, would be the effects of an invasion of the North that has no major battle? Would this be a moral victory for the South or the North, or would it have any effect?