WI Soccer Does Not Become the World Game?

[Philadelphus]

Or to counter, (World) Football, the only sport where a leaf hitting a players kneecap is considered a national disaster....

Or rugby, with its short shorts and tackles that happen, um, in the waist region. That's more a man's game than American football.

[The literal-minded should please note that there are multiple levels, well at least two, of sarcasm and subtext in that remark.]

 

[Philadelphus]

Okay, a serious question:

Is soccer any more followed domestically in Australia and New Zealand than it is in the U.S.? With Aussie Rules, rugby and cricket - yes, New Zealanders, I am aware you're a separate country and have regrettably no idea whether you play Aussie - does soccer get any attention? For that matter, do you call it soccer or football?

By "followed domestically," I mean are there intra-national leagues with a large following like you have in Europe or South America. Even Americans, mostly, pay attention to the U.S. team in the World Cup.

 

[Reylance]

Yes basketball just like SUPERMAN was invented by a Canadian living in the USA. As for where sports derive from, I remember a news cast about a baseball game that had gone into the 40 or 50th inning and had captured allot of media attention including a BBC reporter who commented that it similar to cricket to which the american replied no cricket was a bug and this was a sport.

The longest professional baseball game was a AAA (top minor league) matchup that went 33 innings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_professional_baseball_game

 

[Constantinople]

- Baseball, like Basketball, is a modern sport

It's been organized as long as football, so I dont know man.

 

[abc123]

soccer, aka in most of the English speaking world as football,

In WHOLE World.

 

[archaeogeek]

Or the world can finally play a real sport, a man's sport. Futbol Americano.

Dude, american football is just rugby for people who can't handle rugby

Also I made basketball the top of my list for one reason: note the amount of equipment both require? Yes, a ball.
That's it.

Handball could fall in this category.

 

[the_lyniezian]

Although the roots of baseball are English, similar games have also been played in other parts of the world. Oina is a Romanian ball sport, similar in some ways to baseball. Russia had a bat and ball game called Lapta since the 14th century. Germans played a game called Schlagball, which was similar to rounders. A "bowler" threw a ball to a "striker," who hit it with a club and then tried to run around a circuit of bases without getting hit with the ball by a defender.
In an 1801 book entitled The Sports and Pastimes of the People of England, Joseph Strutt claimed to have shown that baseball-like games can be traced back to the 14th century, and that baseball is a descendant of a United Kingdom game called stoolball. The earliest known reference to stoolball is in a 1330 poem by William Pagula, who recommended to priests that the game be forbidden within churchyards.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_baseball

Americans don't invent things they copy and claim!

Or rather, all games are adapted and evolve. I'd imagine that association football, rugby, American football, Australian rules football &c. are all modern variants of a game which has been played for centuries too. Even basketball, otherwise thought to be a modern invention, is thought to have its precursors.

 

[the_lyniezian]

Dude, american football is just rugby for people who can't handle rugby

Also I made basketball the top of my list for one reason: note the amount of equipment both require? Yes, a ball.
That's it.

Handball could fall in this category.

Basketball also requires a basket or hoop. Football (the real one) requires less, though- a ball and something to mark the goalposts. (At least school playground football, anyway).

 

[Devvy]

It's pre 1900, even without FIFA, the sport was merely a codification of something that was already popular in some form or other throughout Europe and its colonies, and likely in some form throughout the world, period.

Additionally, the british football association was formed in 1848, and it took only a few years to see more associations spring up in Europe, the Americas.

Firstly as a pedant, there is no "British Football Association". The English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish all set up their own independant football associations, which is in part why the home nations all play football independantly of each other (and is thus why we don't enter in the football tournaments at the Olympics because the home nations play football seperately, but enter the Olympics collectively). The English FA was the first one in the world which is why it is simply known as *The* FA.

FIFA also did not, and still does not codify the rules of football - that is something is done by IFAB (International Football Association Board), which was established in 1880's if memory serves. It also consists of a representative from the 4 home nation FA's (RoI FA excluded due to RoI seccession). FIFA was established to better organise international fixtures, and eventually earnt some seats at the IFAB as well. FIFA control the interpretation of the rules, but IFAB control the written rules of the game. The game had spread to most of Europe before FIFA was founded.

For other options
- Cricket would also depend on the british empire.
- Basketball, invented in Canada, could have some mass appeal but it lacks some of the ease of set up you get with football
- Rugby, though, would work and is somewhat popular abroad
- Baseball, like Basketball, is a modern sport
- Field Hockey and Ice Hockey both require lots of equipment (ditto for Lacrosse and obviously polo) making them unlikely as world sports

Cricket is already played by a lot of countries in the Commonwealth, but it isn't exactly an easy game to play so wouldn't really spread that much.

As you say Rugby is probably the most likely, as if it had spread further afield in it's early days, it's similarity to American/Canadian Football & Aussie Rules could well of led to a convergance of rules, or at least the cross over of players from one discipline to another to allow for worldwide rugby.

Baseball isn't *that* modern; it's a divergance from the English sport of Rounders which is very similar (although amusingly to many English, Rounders these days is primarily a girl's school sport - boys play Cricket, which leads to Baseball being the butt of a few jokes!). However, Rounders never really took off as a fully professional sport which stintered it's worldwide growth and has limited Baseball's takeup around the world.

 

[KingByng]

I thought Canada's official game was curling.

Nope, our two official sports are ice hockey and lacrosse.

[flashes back to the time, during the 2010 Winter Olympics, he was amused to overhear - while waiting for a seat at a busy restaurant in New Jersey on a Sunday afternoon, where the Olympics were on TV - another customer remark "curling is the silliest-looking sport I've ever seen."]

Were the Norwegians playing?

 

[Reylance]

In WHOLE World.

I don't know, all the anime I watch has the Japanese using soccer (a Japanese pronunciation of the English world).

 

[Xgentis]

I don't know, all the anime I watch has the Japanese using soccer (a Japanese pronunciation of the English world).

Most of the world call soccer football.

 

[fortyseven]

It's called football!

 

[Bakelite Punk]

Okay, a serious question:

Is soccer any more followed domestically in Australia and New Zealand than it is in the U.S.? With Aussie Rules, rugby and cricket - yes, New Zealanders, I am aware you're a separate country and have regrettably no idea whether you play Aussie - does soccer get any attention? For that matter, do you call it soccer or football?

By "followed domestically," I mean are there intra-national leagues with a large following like you have in Europe or South America. Even Americans, mostly, pay attention to the U.S. team in the World Cup.

No, in a word. Despite my best efforts everyone still calls it soccer. There isn't much of a league, but most of the big cities have clubs that play in sort of semi-formal leagues. It is getting more popular than it was since the the national team did reasonably well in the last world cup, but it's still a bit of a niche sport. The sports here are basically rugby union, that they call rugby, and rugby league, that they call league, although that is a pretty distant second.

As an aside my wife once made an astute observation. All countries call their national game "football"; Aussie rules in Australia is called football, gridiron in America, rugby here, soccer everywhere else.

As another aside, and I mean no offence to native New Zealanders, as the S word is not the national game, even the big teams are not very good. I'm no fan at all, but when it's on the telly in the pub I watch with half an eye. It's sort of like watching a local sunday afternoon pub team from home.

As yet another aside and massive generalisation, football back home is the working class game, with rugby being the preferrence of public school boys. Over here the laddos play rugby, and the posh kids play football.

Oh, and well done for knowing Australia and New Zealand are different countries. A great many people don't seem to realise.

 

[RMcD94]

I don't know, all the anime I watch has the Japanese using soccer (a Japanese pronunciation of the English world).

Of the 45 national FIFA (Fédération Internationale de Football Association) affiliates in which English is an official or primary language, 43 use football in their organisations' official names (only Canada and United States use soccer). Soccer has been the prevailing term for association football in the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa, where other codes of football are dominant. The term used for association football is going through a period of transition in recent times. In 2005, Australia's association football governing body changed its name from soccer to football to align with the general international usage of the term.[1] In 2006, New Zealand decided to follow suit citing "the international game is called football".[2]

I have to assume in the manga you read the translator was from the USA, Canada or South Africa.

 

[archaeogeek]

FIFA also did not, and still does not codify the rules of football - that is something is done by IFAB (International Football Association Board), which was established in 1880's if memory serves. It also consists of a representative from the 4 home nation FA's (RoI FA excluded due to RoI seccession). FIFA was established to better organise international fixtures, and eventually earnt some seats at the IFAB as well. FIFA control the interpretation of the rules, but IFAB control the written rules of the game. The game had spread to most of Europe before FIFA was founded.

Pedantic point 1 taken, but where did I ever imply that FIFA had anything to do with the rules code? The codification was done in the mid 19th century, half a century before FIFA even existed. IFAB simply regulates them in a more official fashion.

 

[ajlaw9]

The sports here are basically rugby union, that they call rugby, and rugby league, that they call league, although that is a pretty distant second.

I think you mean the other way around BP. Rugby League is more popular than Rugby Union in Australia, although in most (perhaps all) other Rugby playing countries Union is more popular.

Basically for those wondering, Australia is roughly split in footballs. Half the country (NSW and QLD) is mad for Rugby (either code), the other half (The rest) is mad for Aussie Rules - with Aussie Rules having the overall edge. Soccer is a long way behind. Teams in the national league only get a few thousand fans to each game. However soccer IS very popular at junior level.

 

[ajlaw9]

In terms of the topic I think rugby union would end up the world sport. It already has a large presence in many commonwealth countries + Italy, France, Ireland and Argentina. remove soccer and all of a sudden there is a big chance of rugby taking off more in South America and Europe and going from there.
Like soccer, rugby requires little equipment and can be played easily enough with simplified rules.

 

[Devvy]

Pedantic point 1 taken, but where did I ever imply that FIFA had anything to do with the rules code? The codification was done in the mid 19th century, half a century before FIFA even existed. IFAB simply regulates them in a more official fashion.

Sorry - I was just making the one pedantic point

The rest were just other general points to explain that international matches were happening often back then, so even without FIFA, football would still rise to a significant level.

No idea if it would of reached the current world dominating level it is at in OTL though!

 

[Marius]

In terms of the topic I think rugby union would end up the world sport. It already has a large presence in many commonwealth countries + Italy, France, Ireland and Argentina. remove soccer and all of a sudden there is a big chance of rugby taking off more in South America and Europe and going from there.
Like soccer, rugby requires little equipment and can be played easily enough with simplified rules.

Rugby's popularity is growing in Argentina I believe, especially since the Pumas got to the semis of the last World Cup (being beaten by the eventual champions )

I also heard that the time of a derby between Boca Juniors and River Plate was changed so people could watch the rugby semi final, apparently the first time that rugby had superceded soccer in Argentina.