What if one minor French priest leading a part of the First Crusade's army had not "found" the Holy Lance during the Siege of Antioch, preventing high morale from being breathed back into the Crusader army? Basically, what if the Seljuks had successfully repulsed the attack on Antioch in 1098?
What would happen next? Could Alexios Komnenos' reconquests in Anatolia be undone? What happens to the Fatimids?
 
What if one minor French priest leading a part of the First Crusade's army had not "found" the Holy Lance during the Siege of Antioch, preventing high morale from being breathed back into the Crusader army? Basically, what if the Seljuks had successfully repulsed the attack on Antioch in 1098?
What would happen next? Could Alexios Komnenos' reconquests in Anatolia be undone? What happens to the Fatimids?

Seljuks give a huge hit to the Crusaders. But... there is still Civil War among Seljuk states and the Fatimids have just taken Jerusalem back. Soooo... if the East Romans try they might get Antioch back. Making it even harder for the Crusader States to form.
 
where it is located
Southeast of Anatolia (modern-day Turkey) and south of the Taurus Mountains.
4edb0681ca8e94344637b1f8497d6898.jpg


It was strategically important, since it could serve as an anchor to outflank enemies residing in Anatolia, and is often the first city to be captured by an army going from Anatolia to Syria.
 
in real life the Crusaders lose almost all their horses in the siege if they lose they could not retread, so all the 40,000 soldiers maybe would die
 
Southeast of Anatolia (modern-day Turkey) and south of the Taurus Mountains.
4edb0681ca8e94344637b1f8497d6898.jpg


It was strategically important, since it could serve as an anchor to outflank enemies residing in Anatolia, and is often the first city to be captured by an army going from Anatolia to Syria.

Looking at the map, it’s crazy to think that the defeat at Manzikert, way in the east, caused the Romans to (temporarily) lose all of Anatolia. I know they had a civil war right after but still, it seems almost ASB.
 
during the siege the crusaders find the Holy spear , and after this the moral of the troops get big and help they to win more battles in the crusade maybe the lose of the siege would end the crusader advance in the region maybe in the war itself
 
So by the time the “Holy Lance” was discovered, the Crusaders had already taken Antioch and were defending it against a relief army under Kerbogha, the Atabeg of Mosul. If the sally by the Crusader army against Kerbogha fails for whatever reason (lance or no), the result is the likely extirpation of the Crusaders.

It should be noted that some of the Crusaders have already gone elsewhere - specifically, Baldwin of Bologne’s departure for Edessa. Baldwin seized power in Edessa in March 1098, while the Battle of Antioch occurred in late June. Thus, ITTL the “County of Edessa” is still created, although as the only Crusader state it may not be very long-lived.

The immediate result of a Crusader defeat at Antioch is going to be the aggrandizement of Kerbogha, who will become ruler of a state stretching from Mosul to the Mediterranean. Edessa may be his next target. But Kerbogha’s position is unstable - his army was a fractious coalition whose leaders were probably more worried about Kerbogha’s own power than some Franks capturing Antioch. While taking Antioch might strengthen Kerbogha, it might also prove to be an overextension. I suspect sooner or later his power is going to crumble due to internal unrest and external threats. Duqaq and Ridwan, the brothers controlling Damascus and Aleppo (respectively), are bound to oppose him, and the Fatimids are enjoying something of a recovery to the south, having taken Jerusalem back from the Turks around a year before the Crusaders captured the city IOTL.

Certainly Kerbogha will not be much of a threat to Alexios; he’s got enemies much closer to home to worry about. From the emperor’s perspective this whole Crusade thing has gone rather well - with the help of the Franks, he’s managed to liberate Nicaea and other parts of western Anatolia, and their defeat at Antioch doesn’t really harm the Byzantine position. The Sultanate of Rum will remain a threat, but there’s no reason that they would suddenly overrun the lands that Alexios has reclaimed because of what happened in Antioch. Indeed, it’s entirely possible that the defeat at Antioch will be good for the Byzantines. Alexios may still be able to assert control of Cilicia after the defeat of the Crusaders, won’t have to worry about Bohemond’s attacks on his territories, and if (or more likely, when) Kerbogha’s state collapses the Byzantines may well be able to pick off Antioch for themselves. In the long run the failure of the First Crusade undoubtedly butterflies the disaster of the Fourth, so this could be a pretty good TL for Byzantine fortunes in general, although that depends at least as much on Byzantine succession as anything the Latins are up to.

Perhaps more interesting but far harder to measure are the effects this would have on the Latin West. Does this failure redound badly on the Pope and the nascent “Crusading movement” in general, and if so, how badly? I can’t see the urge for holy war being snuffed out by a single defeat, but clearly there will be consequences. Perhaps the notion of the holy war being prosecuted by mere noblemen is discredited and the Papacy more strongly urges kings to take the wheel as they later did - most famously in the Second Crusade, but for the first time in the “Norwegian Crusade” of 1107-1101. Or perhaps Christian militant fervor will be redirected elsewhere, to more accessible targets like the Muslims in Spain and the Pagans in the northeast.
 
Certainly Kerbogha will not be much of a threat to Alexios; he’s got enemies much closer to home to worry about. From the emperor’s perspective this whole Crusade thing has gone rather well - with the help of the Franks, he’s managed to liberate Nicaea and other parts of western Anatolia, and their defeat at Antioch doesn’t really harm the Byzantine position. The Sultanate of Rum will remain a threat, but there’s no reason that they would suddenly overrun the lands that Alexios has reclaimed because of what happened in Antioch. Indeed, it’s entirely possible that the defeat at Antioch will be good for the Byzantines. Alexios may still be able to assert control of Cilicia after the defeat of the Crusaders, won’t have to worry about Bohemond’s attacks on his territories, and if (or more likely, when) Kerbogha’s state collapses the Byzantines may well be able to pick off Antioch for themselves. In the long run the failure of the First Crusade undoubtedly butterflies the disaster of the Fourth, so this could be a pretty good TL for Byzantine fortunes in general, although that depends at least as much on Byzantine succession as anything the Latins are up to.

Perhaps more interesting but far harder to measure are the effects this would have on the Latin West. Does this failure redound badly on the Pope and the nascent “Crusading movement” in general, and if so, how badly? I can’t see the urge for holy war being snuffed out by a single defeat, but clearly there will be consequences. Perhaps the notion of the holy war being prosecuted by mere noblemen is discredited and the Papacy more strongly urges kings to take the wheel as they later did - most famously in the Second Crusade, but for the first time in the “Norwegian Crusade” of 1107-1101. Or perhaps Christian militant fervor will be redirected elsewhere, to more accessible targets like the Muslims in Spain and the Pagans in the northeast.

It would be interesting to see the Byzantines possible be able have it better and the Reconquista being put into overdrive.
 
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