WI: Reconquista goes to Morocco?

What if the Spanish Reconquista continued South, and conquered the entirety of Morocco, instead of just Ceuta and Melilla. Would Morocco eventually come to be seen as an integral part of Europe because of language and religion (the way Cyprus is)? Would there be endless wars between Berber/Arab groups and the Spanish? Would Spain lose it to the decolonization movements of the 1820s, or the Spanish-American War of 1898?
 

Lusitania

Donor
What if the Spanish Reconquista continued South, and conquered the entirety of Morocco, instead of just Ceuta and Melilla. Would Morocco eventually come to be seen as an integral part of Europe because of language and religion (the way Cyprus is)? Would there be endless wars between Berber/Arab groups and the Spanish? Would Spain lose it to the decolonization movements of the 1820s, or the Spanish-American War of 1898?
Ok you need to read quite abit more about who controlled North Africa. Africa. till 1640 it was Portugal was controlled by the Portuguese not Spanish. The Spanish had two enclaves Oran and Melilla. While Portugal had over two dozen ports.
 
Ok you need to read quite abit more about who controlled North Africa. Africa. till 1640 it was Portugal was controlled by the Portuguese not Spanish. The Spanish had two enclaves Oran and Melilla. While Portugal had over two dozen ports.

How was Oran lost?
 

Lusitania

Donor
The Spanish gave it up. Keeping these enclaves cost a lot of money and military personnel. Spain had a lot of demands for $ and soldiers.
 
Fernando originally wanted to conquer Morocco or at least extend Spanish rule over most of its coast and that of Algeria all the way to Tunis, but the Italian War cut that off.
 

Lusitania

Donor
Fernando originally wanted to conquer Morocco or at least extend Spanish rule over most of its coast and that of Algeria all the way to Tunis, but the Italian War cut that off.
But by 18th century it was rather late to start reconquista of North Africa.

no the best opportunity was of course king Sebastian of Portugal victory over the Morocco in middle of the 16th century. For that would of placed most of northern Morocco under Portuguese control and resulted in rest of it being subject nations(s).
 
But by 18th century it was rather late to start reconquista of North Africa.

no the best opportunity was of course king Sebastian of Portugal victory over the Morocco in middle of the 16th century. For that would of placed most of northern Morocco under Portuguese control and resulted in rest of it being subject nations(s).
Fernando of Aragón is of the 16th century.
 
Was only looking at Spanish kings.

The Reconquista wasn't done by Spain, It was an effort by many Iberian Kingdoms over the Course of eight hundred Years. And even with the Consolidation of those said Kingdoms, It wasn't until the War of Spanish Succession that Castile and Aragon truly Became Spain. Hell if the Succession War went different and the Habsburgs had an extra, and not deformed. male member Spain could have easily been split back into the Crown of Castile and the Crown of Aragon
 

Lusitania

Donor
The Reconquista wasn't done by Spain, It was an effort by many Iberian Kingdoms over the Course of eight hundred Years. And even with the Consolidation of those said Kingdoms, It wasn't until the War of Spanish Succession that Castile and Aragon truly Became Spain. Hell if the Succession War went different and the Habsburgs had an extra, and not deformed. male member Spain could have easily been split back into the Crown of Castile and the Crown of Aragon
The only country that continued the reconquista was Portugal when it captured Ceuta in 1415.
 
The only country that continued the reconquista was Portugal when it captured Ceuta in 1415.

Did we all imagine reading about Spain spending the 16th century on one long Mediterranean campaign where they captured multiple North African cities like Tunis? Like come on. Claiming Portugal controlled North Africa is disingenuous as hell
 

Lusitania

Donor
Did we all imagine reading about Spain spending the 16th century on one long Mediterranean campaign where they captured multiple North African cities like Tunis? Like come on. Claiming Portugal controlled North Africa is disingenuous as hell
The agreement between Portugal and Castile was that Portugal controlled Atlantic Africa. Spain kept the canaries and yes had access to Mediterranean coast. So when Spain was formed it could of continued and gotten Algiers and Tunisia.
 
What if the Spanish Reconquista continued South, and conquered the entirety of Morocco, instead of just Ceuta and Melilla. Would Morocco eventually come to be seen as an integral part of Europe because of language and religion (the way Cyprus is)? Would there be endless wars between Berber/Arab groups and the Spanish? Would Spain lose it to the decolonization movements of the 1820s, or the Spanish-American War of 1898?

Avoid Portugal conquering coastal towns of Morocco.
 
But by 18th century it was rather late to start reconquista of North Africa.

no the best opportunity was of course king Sebastian of Portugal victory over the Morocco in middle of the 16th century. For that would of placed most of northern Morocco under Portuguese control and resulted in rest of it being subject nations(s).
IIRC, he even created a custom made crown for his new kingdom in Morocco, he was quite convinced he might win against the Saadi Moroccans in the Battle of the Three Kings in 1578. Saying that the battle was a stunning disaster for the Portuguese who not only lost their king but also their independence is an understatement. I could imagine a TL where Sebastian I might carve out a Kingdom of Mauretania in Northern Morocco due to a series of good luck and victories against the young Saadi. I don't think it could last long without some serious investments of the Portuguese into the Rif area and a less inquisitory approach to the Muslim Berbers living there, but it would definitely extend the idea of the Reconquista to include Maghreb al-Aqsa.

But I would set my PoD here, since Sebastian really wanted Morocco to be part of Portugal and Christendom. The Catholic Kings of Spain IIRC also had some interest in extending the Reconquista into Morocco, but I think they were troubled enough with the Moriscos, the ambitious and rich Valencian and Aragonese noblemen, and, of course, other issues.
 
no the best opportunity was of course king Sebastian of Portugal victory over the Morocco in middle of the 16th century. For that would of placed most of northern Morocco under Portuguese control and resulted in rest of it being subject nations(s).
I think it would actually create a protectorate rather than effective control, since he had a claimant to the morrocan state asking for help.
 
Reconquista going to Morocco has two potential era's:
- in the late 13th century with the fall of entire Islamic Andalusia, Morocco is in political chaos due to the fall of the Almohads.
- In the early 16th century if Portugal does not conquer the coastal towns in Morocco such as Ceuta.

OTL Portugal DID continue a reconquista towards Morocco by conquering certain coastal settlements. Though it did not continue further than that, it did happen. AFAIC, Spain has potentially more resources to get something. I wrote about it earlier in 2019. But in this case, avoid Spain ruling the Lowlands and let them just keep their Italian gains. They need the part North of the Rif Mountains, the area they got in the 19th century. Populate the area with Christian Iberians and you have secure North African base. The danger is that Spain now has control over going in and out to the Mediterranean. Which means, any power willing to fight wars with Spain will concentrate on there and make formal alliance in reconquest of the region. Nothing impossible but not something that will make it go smooth either. From the Rif region, future expansion can go. This will however require a lot of time and resources. And the Moroccan population is not really willingly to surrender either because of the religious policy of the Spanish until the 18th century. So a substantial population of Moroccans will remain as Muslims.
 
You could trick this by making Miguel de la Paz survive and unite the Portuguese and Castilian-Aragonese thrones into a Spain that already controls the coastline of Morocco. A continued Trastamara Spain wouldn't be dragged by the Habsburgs into the mess of warfare that Germany was through the XVI and XVII centuries, thus giving Spain a free hand to attack Morocco, Algeria and Tunis, specially if TTL's equivalent of Lepanto results in a Catholic victory.

My guess is that a conquest and assimilation of Morocco would be slow and painful. Islam was well rooted there and mountain tribes were threatening (the Spanish lost to them in the 1920's, albeit it was caused by a commander and there's still a smell of conspiration there) so subduing them would take decades of fighting. Morocco wouldn't drag many settlers in, Spain wasn't specially crowded and Morocco does not offer the possibility of discovering loads of gold and silver or gaining huge swathes of territory. I guess military orders like those of Calatrava or Alcantara, creating large properties with light settlement and mainly aimed at producing grain or meat, which would work quite well in the alluvian plain of northwest Morocco. The problem comes when trying to maintain the territory, and depending on the scale of it and the magnitude of possible rebellions it might become a drain even bigger than that of Flanders. Surely coastal areas would remain under Spanish control from Agadir to Oran or maybe Tunis, but controlling the Atlas would be difficult. It also generates a larger problem of a fifth collumn against the Ottomans and would leave peninsular Spain with no place to dump their muslim population should an expulsion a-la OTL happen. There's also the possibility that if Andalusis are expelled they're more supportive of the Spanish than the local Berbers and forge their own identity separate of them, possibly keeping the legacy of Al-Andalus alive in Africa.

North Africa would be heavily tied to Spain and surely no power could be able to seize the territory or expel them unless the Ottomans get very lucky, which I doubt having their own problems already so I guess Spain would control a big chunk of North Africa to the modern day. Also this scenario completely butterflies away the 1820's Spanish American emancipation processes and the Spanish-American war.
 
OTL Portugal DID continue a reconquista towards Morocco by conquering certain coastal settlements. Though it did not continue further than that, it did happen. AFAIC, Spain has potentially more resources to get something. I wrote about it earlier in 2019. But in this case, avoid Spain ruling the Lowlands and let them just keep their Italian gains. They need the part North of the Rif Mountains, the area they got in the 19th century. Populate the area with Christian Iberians and you have secure North African base. The danger is that Spain now has control over going in and out to the Mediterranean. Which means, any power willing to fight wars with Spain will concentrate on there and make formal alliance in reconquest of the region. Nothing impossible but not something that will make it go smooth either. From the Rif region, future expansion can go. This will however require a lot of time and resources. And the Moroccan population is not really willingly to surrender either because of the religious policy of the Spanish until the 18th century. So a substantial population of Moroccans will remain as Muslims.
I wouldn't be so sure about the last parts.
Unlike Nasrid Granada, (Northern) Morocco, by that point, hadn't had any Christian neighbours for almost a millennium. Berbers aren't exactly known for their piety and how easily they convert, hell, the Almoravids and Almohads had embraced asceticism and mystics in Morocco and Al-Andalus, despite the rigorous Maliki 'ulama proclaiming otherwise in Seville. I don't think you could convert the population that is known for its pride and resilience that easily, especially not by introducing Iberians into that mix. And if we throw in that holy office of the Spanish Inquisition... a perfect recipe for a disaster. This TL would probably even further develop some more extreme racist tendencies than the Spanish did towards the Moriscos (who were already Christian!) before.

Another thing to note is that this Kingdom of Mauritania is surrounded by Muslim Kingdoms who could definitely count on local support.

Last, but not least, there's nothing economically viable enough to support such an early expensive colonization effort which ought to be protected by the Moroccan sultanate, some Berber raiders from within and without, a rebellious local population, Algerian imamates and sultanates to the East who might sooner or later call in the Ottomans. The Rif was not as strategically important as it was by the dawn of mechanized warfare and outside of some iron and coal mines near Oujda, Figuig and Nador that were only first opened in the 20th century, there's not much of value that couldn't be produced in Spain or the New World.

I'd therefore argue that Spain, despite its wealth, most likely won't stay around there for long. The Spanish must be damn lucky to get around a population they can't just throw out and neighbours perfectly capable of challenging their presence in Africa for more than half a century. More than two centuries might even be ASB, if other Muslim nations and the locals don't suddenly get snapped away into irrelevance.

That's at least how I see it. North Morocco isn't just Melilla and Ceuta after all, it's a large and difficult-to-control mountainous area perfectly suitable for nasty guerilla warfare in the event of hostile occupation. Battle of Annual, anyone?
 
I don't think you could convert the population that is known for its pride and resilience that easily, especially not by introducing Iberians into that mix.
How is this even measurable? What is actually measurable is the ability of Moroccans to resist Spanish military incursions and encroachment, and I really don't think they can. They don't have a good navy, for starters. Although the Spaniards are not going to make many local allies, the Spaniards still should be powerful enough to conquer a good portion of Morocco and keep it for well over a century.

Another thing to note is that this Kingdom of Mauritania is surrounded by Muslim Kingdoms who could definitely count on local support.
Sicily and Naples was surrounded by Spanish rivals, yet the Spaniards still managed to retain them for centuries.
 
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