There have been threads on similar questions on here before (from 2012 through 2019, if I've been able to use the search option properly), but discussions there often stopped fast, while longer ones shifted their focus back to the British Isles, while "No Norman Conquest" threads of course focus on the isles first and foremost.
There seems to be a near-consensus in these threads, though, that it was the permanent conflicts between England and France were perhaps the single most important factor contributing to the centralisation of the French monarchy, which started in the 13th century and picked up steam towards the end of the 100YW.
My interest is really to pursue the possibility of "no centralisation of France" further, but without this ending up in an English-dominated France, or an HRE-wank. In fact, what I'm most interested in is the possibility of the late medieval trend towards centralised monarchies never occurring, or at least not occurring on the scale of OTL, all the while assuming that England and France were the primary drivers and models for this development. (I know this ignores the role of the Roman Catholic church and its strong support for such monarchies all throughout the 9th, 10th and 11th centuries. The reason why I'm ignoring this is because by the 11th century and its waves of religious reform, power politics were no longer that easy and the church rather turned to a struggle to maintain its supreme independence e.g. vis-a-vis the HREmperors.)
So, here goes a new attempt at the What If question:
What if William is defeated and killed in 1066, the Godwinsons continue to rule England, and they don't interfere in France much, at least way less than the Norman-English monarchs did? Assume - if you like, consider this a second PoD - that from the 12th to the 15th centuries, there are no major and long-lasting wars between English and French armies, and that all the impulses towards a centralisation of power in the hands of the Kings of France that came from this perennial struggle are absent.
I'm interested in various dimensions of this scenario:
Concepts of statehood
IOTL, the idea of "the state" as it emerged in the centuries of the early modern age, was initially conceptualised almost exclusively as a centralised and even absolute monarchy. Of course there are precedents for this throughout history - but would it still emerge in Western Europe with these changes in England and France occurring? (If so, why? What are the driving forces?) Or would feudalism develop into a different direction? Which role would towns, rural communes, and leagues between them play? Could we see the emergence of concepts of modern statehood based on them? (How would a political philosophy based on this look?) Or would the church and references back to Roman times and structures remain much more influential in these developments? (This does not look very likely to me with a PoD in 1066... but maybe I'm wrong?!)
Economy
How would no Anglo-French wars and no centralisation of the French monarchy affect the development of trade, crafts, agriculture, monetarisation and financialisation, the nuclei of modern capitalism etc.? Would it aid them (given how much of this flowered most where central power was weakest, i.e. in Northern Italy)? Or would it hinder them (because of less safety? rather not likely, but maybe because standardisation helped a lot here? evidently, things look different when we move into the modern age and the atlantic exchange... so let's look at that, too: )
Butterflies in different parts of the world
How would the PoD(s) affect the Iberian peninsula?
More indirectly, if this isn't too unpredictable: How could it affect the "discovery" of the Americas?
How would it affect the Holy Roman Empire? The Italian peninsula?
(I'm rather less interested in effects on Scandinavia, but if you can come up with interesting ideas on that region, go ahead!)
Languages
Evidently, and there have been many threads on this topic as well as research elsewhere, without the Norman Conquest, English would be utterly different. And perhaps not be spoken in Ireland. Maybe not even in Scotland?
But, as I said, I'd like to focus on the consequences on the continent:
What are the effects on the langues d'oc? Can we say anything about butterflies on Iberian languages? Anything else?
I hope you find the convoluted premise(s) acceptable (if not, feel free to deconstruct my basic underlying assumptions!) and I'm very curious to hear what your thoughts are!
There seems to be a near-consensus in these threads, though, that it was the permanent conflicts between England and France were perhaps the single most important factor contributing to the centralisation of the French monarchy, which started in the 13th century and picked up steam towards the end of the 100YW.
My interest is really to pursue the possibility of "no centralisation of France" further, but without this ending up in an English-dominated France, or an HRE-wank. In fact, what I'm most interested in is the possibility of the late medieval trend towards centralised monarchies never occurring, or at least not occurring on the scale of OTL, all the while assuming that England and France were the primary drivers and models for this development. (I know this ignores the role of the Roman Catholic church and its strong support for such monarchies all throughout the 9th, 10th and 11th centuries. The reason why I'm ignoring this is because by the 11th century and its waves of religious reform, power politics were no longer that easy and the church rather turned to a struggle to maintain its supreme independence e.g. vis-a-vis the HREmperors.)
So, here goes a new attempt at the What If question:
What if William is defeated and killed in 1066, the Godwinsons continue to rule England, and they don't interfere in France much, at least way less than the Norman-English monarchs did? Assume - if you like, consider this a second PoD - that from the 12th to the 15th centuries, there are no major and long-lasting wars between English and French armies, and that all the impulses towards a centralisation of power in the hands of the Kings of France that came from this perennial struggle are absent.
I'm interested in various dimensions of this scenario:
Concepts of statehood
IOTL, the idea of "the state" as it emerged in the centuries of the early modern age, was initially conceptualised almost exclusively as a centralised and even absolute monarchy. Of course there are precedents for this throughout history - but would it still emerge in Western Europe with these changes in England and France occurring? (If so, why? What are the driving forces?) Or would feudalism develop into a different direction? Which role would towns, rural communes, and leagues between them play? Could we see the emergence of concepts of modern statehood based on them? (How would a political philosophy based on this look?) Or would the church and references back to Roman times and structures remain much more influential in these developments? (This does not look very likely to me with a PoD in 1066... but maybe I'm wrong?!)
Economy
How would no Anglo-French wars and no centralisation of the French monarchy affect the development of trade, crafts, agriculture, monetarisation and financialisation, the nuclei of modern capitalism etc.? Would it aid them (given how much of this flowered most where central power was weakest, i.e. in Northern Italy)? Or would it hinder them (because of less safety? rather not likely, but maybe because standardisation helped a lot here? evidently, things look different when we move into the modern age and the atlantic exchange... so let's look at that, too: )
Butterflies in different parts of the world
How would the PoD(s) affect the Iberian peninsula?
More indirectly, if this isn't too unpredictable: How could it affect the "discovery" of the Americas?
How would it affect the Holy Roman Empire? The Italian peninsula?
(I'm rather less interested in effects on Scandinavia, but if you can come up with interesting ideas on that region, go ahead!)
Languages
Evidently, and there have been many threads on this topic as well as research elsewhere, without the Norman Conquest, English would be utterly different. And perhaps not be spoken in Ireland. Maybe not even in Scotland?
But, as I said, I'd like to focus on the consequences on the continent:
What are the effects on the langues d'oc? Can we say anything about butterflies on Iberian languages? Anything else?
I hope you find the convoluted premise(s) acceptable (if not, feel free to deconstruct my basic underlying assumptions!) and I'm very curious to hear what your thoughts are!
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