WI No "Glorious Revolution"

[The Grin Without a Cat]

What if William III of Orange kept opposing the idea of invading England and the invasion of 1688 never happened, and James II remains king of England.

The Nine Years War between the League of Augsburg and France happens like in our OTL, the catholic James II supporting Louis XIV, but not declaring war on any of the allied powers. The war pretty much goes like it did in our TL, and the peace treaty being nearly the same as the original one, with the HRE regaining most of the territories lost during the war.

Now, due to the English not participating in the war, the English navy stays the same as it was before the war, James II is forced to take a lot of shit from Louis XIV, resulting in a lot less influential England, as well as an England with a lot crappier navy.

William III and Mary II may or may not have a child, the Dutch remain the dominant maritime power longer than they did in the OTL (until somebody surpasses them) and the Kingdom of Great Britain is not formed.

So what would the long term affects be? A more French dominated North America as well as a bigger French colonial Empire (and a extremely smaller British one)? Due to the lack of the now (delayed) British presence in the 18th century, somebody has to take their place, France or the United Provinces being the only real possibilities. The United Provinces would definitely remain the dominant naval power as well the richest country in Europe for as long as they did in the OTL, but to do the small population, were not going to see a massive Dutch colonial empire. I would assume that the French would overtime fill the shoes that Britain did in our TL.

Any comments/thoughts/ideas anyone?

 

[Dr. Waterhouse]

I don't see how in this scenario France doesn't win the War of the Spanish Succession outright, especially if James the Prince of Wales born in 1688 succeeds in 1701 (James II's death in our timeline) and stays under the influence of his father's advisors. Setting the colonies aside for the moment, this would mean an almost Napoleonic reshuffling of western Europe, with the Bourbons acquiring Spain, the Spanish Netherlands, Naples and scattered Spanish Habsburg possessions elsewhere. Also, if I recall correctly Louis XIV had promised the throne of the Holy Roman Empire to Bavaria. So we're talking about the Habsburgs in an almost total eclipse outside Austria and the territories they acquire from the Ottomans during this period (acquisitions which they now may not be able to pull off in the first place), a Holy Roman Empire that's reduced almost to the status of the Confederation of the Rhine, and essentially a united Roman Catholic Europe. Also, the Dutch would be in huge trouble.

Eventually though, I think French hegemony would begin to chafe whoever happened to be ruling England, especially since the Stuarts would still be facing the same underlying instability that in our timeline led to the Glorious Revolution. If the French started to really begin overpowering Britain in India and North America, quite likely James III would have been forced to do something. Whether it would have been as glorious as the Duke of Malborough though, I sincerely doubt.

There is by the way a great podcast with a segment that tells the story of the War of the Spanish Succession chronologically, called Historyzine. If you intend to really pursue this as a timeline, I heartily recommend it.

 

[Faeelin]

Why must James do something? I could also see a desire for an accomodation, as France now controls and dominates the continent. And Britain in 1710 isn't the Britain of 1810; it simply lacks the resources and ability to take France on alone.

 

[wietze]

from what i read William threatend to withdraw the dutch troops if parliament didn't accept him and his wife as joint monarchs. So a pod could be that the 2 houses are not able to resolve the matter, and william goes back to the UP.

this effectively nullifies the glorious revolution, and might even spark a civil war.

 

[The Grin Without a Cat]

I don't see how in this scenario France doesn't win the War of the Spanish Succession outright, especially if James the Prince of Wales born in 1688 succeeds in 1701 (James II's death in our timeline) and stays under the influence of his father's advisors. Setting the colonies aside for the moment, this would mean an almost Napoleonic reshuffling of western Europe, with the Bourbons acquiring Spain, the Spanish Netherlands, Naples and scattered Spanish Habsburg possessions elsewhere. Also, if I recall correctly Louis XIV had promised the throne of the Holy Roman Empire to Bavaria. So we're talking about the Habsburgs in an almost total eclipse outside Austria and the territories they acquire from the Ottomans during this period (acquisitions which they now may not be able to pull off in the first place), a Holy Roman Empire that's reduced almost to the status of the Confederation of the Rhine, and essentially a united Roman Catholic Europe. Also, the Dutch would be in huge trouble.

Eventually though, I think French hegemony would begin to chafe whoever happened to be ruling England, especially since the Stuarts would still be facing the same underlying instability that in our timeline led to the Glorious Revolution. If the French started to really begin overpowering Britain in India and North America, quite likely James III would have been forced to do something. Whether it would have been as glorious as the Duke of Malborough though, I sincerely doubt.

There is by the way a great podcast with a segment that tells the story of the War of the Spanish Succession chronologically, called Historyzine. If you intend to really pursue this as a timeline, I heartily recommend it.

Whatever are you talking about? I was talking about the Nine Years War, not the War of Spanish Succession, but still, thank you for your input.

I am not planning on writing a timeline about this, I was merely curious about this as I always think to myself that without the Glorious Revolution, England and Great Britain would not have been nearly as influential as they were in the OTL.

Thank you for the story by the way, I´ll check it out.

 

[Grey Wolf]

I thought James had a plan to unite the colonies into a dominion with one viceroy, or some such?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf