WI: No Boer War - effect on WW1?

If the British Army didn't suffer under the Boers, they'd have little incentive to modernize

That is, their uniform may not have undergone a fundamental rethink, as a result of the Boer combat experience. Moreover, correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall that as a result of that 'combat experience' a greater emphasis was placed on marksmanship with their rifles - so much so that the Germans thought they had machine guns against them!

How then, without such reforms, would the British Army have fared in 1914 - could the Germans sweeping them aside, have succeeded?.
 
I may be incorrect (and I'm sure someone will correct me) but the sweeping changes to the British Army only really came after the extremely embarrassing defeat in the First Boer War. The army abandoned the traditional red coats, adopted better rifle tactics, and placed more emphasis on organization (which saw some limited success in the Anglo-Egyptian War in 1882). There were fiascos in the Second Boer War, but nothing really comparable to the First World War, especially as the conventional phase was over in under a year, while the guerilla phase took longer, for obvious reasons.
 
If the British Army didn't suffer under the Boers, they'd have little incentive to modernize

That is, their uniform may not have undergone a fundamental rethink, as a result of the Boer combat experience. Moreover, correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall that as a result of that 'combat experience' a greater emphasis was placed on marksmanship with their rifles - so much so that the Germans thought they had machine guns against them!

How then, without such reforms, would the British Army have fared in 1914 - could the Germans sweeping them aside, have succeeded?.
Would the British army be larger if the British government didn't have to pay the equivalent of 2-3 battleships a year in interest due to Boer war debt.

Historically the British prewar regulars were essentially wiped out in 1914. A lot of the benefits gained from the reforms (such as drilled fast firing infantry men) were essentially wiped out with these prewar regulars.

I feel that uniforms and similar reforms would have been picked up by the time the new army deployed to the field. So the real question is how much of a difference would have been made in 1914 as I feel British performance in later years would not be effected.
I may be incorrect (and I'm sure someone will correct me) but the sweeping changes to the British Army only really came after the extremely embarrassing defeat in the First Boer War. The army abandoned the traditional red coats, adopted better rifle tactics, and placed more emphasis on organization (which saw some limited success in the Anglo-Egyptian War in 1882). There were fiascos in the Second Boer War, but nothing really comparable to the First World War, especially as the conventional phase was over in under a year, while the guerilla phase took longer, for obvious reasons.
I beleive that there was reforms after the first Boer war but they were not as comprehensive as the reforms after the second Boer war. The Haldene reforms, rifle tactics and a new service dress uniform was adopted after the second boer war.
 

kham_coc

Banned
Another impact would be less strained Anglo German relations in particular, and less strained relations witheveryone for the UK - Leaving it less tied to the Entente.
 

Garrison

Donor
Would the British army be larger if the British government didn't have to pay the equivalent of 2-3 battleships a year in interest due to Boer war debt.
More likely you would just get more ships for the navy. The British had zero interest in expanding the army prior to WWI.
 
I thought khaki was adopted first in India, ie before the Boer wars.
Also, Churchill's Frontiers and Wars mentions very long range rifle fire in India (before the Boers wars) as if it was a standard tactic, with magazine fire reserved as a (very effective) measure of last resort in Sudan and other North east African countries.
But although the basics were present, the Boer wars provided hard lessons that could not be ignored, when the lessons from smaller and largely victorious actions could be brushed aside. I wonder how much of the drive for reforms was due to geater media scrutiny of failings in South Africa, and how much down to lessons gradually sinking in since the adoption of modern rifles.
 
I've written a lot about the British Army reforms. Tl;dr they would still occur in some form, just differently than in OTL, as long as the Anglo-French Entente turns the Army to plan for a war against Germany in France instead of against Russia in the frontiers of the Raj.
 
I've written a lot about the British Army reforms. Tl;dr they would still occur in some form, just differently than in OTL, as long as the Anglo-French Entente turns the Army to plan for a war against Germany in France instead of against Russia in the frontiers of the Raj.
 
Aside from the P.O.D. being pre-1900, there were several lessons learned by the British from the 2nd Boer War. For example:

1) The need for far better quality control at the factories producing the MLEs, especially went it came to the factory zeroed sights. Seriously, many of the accuracy problems the British had was down to their rifles having dodgy sights that couldn't easily be readjusted without an armourer.
2) That the old methods of battle were definitely obsolete, and that the British based units needed to learn how to terrain as cover more effectively. Like the Boers, colonials and India based units did.
3) That, while khaki was a good idea, they needed to stop officers carrying swords into combat, relocate officer's rank insignia from the cuff to the epaulette, and reduce the size of NCO insignia to prevent them all getting shot in the first 5 minutes of the battle.
4) That while the MLE was a good rifle, once the accuracy issues were dealt with, it was a wee bit long and a little too heavy, and the carbine was a teensy bit too short and kicked like a mule on meth. Something between the two, say a universal Short, Magazine, Lee Enfield would be nice. Also, a stripper clip for reloading would probably be a good idea, especially since the idea of issuing more than one or two magazines per rifle was scrapped.
5) That, yet again, a replacement for the standard army ration biscuit was needed. Seriously, troops liked to leave them out in the rain to soften enough to eat, they could hold an edge, and at least one was used as a postcard home from South Africa (it arrived intact).

There were many more. Some more suited to colonial policing, the main role of the British Army, some suited to the possibility of a European war.

So, if there were no 2nd Boer War, the British could still be using the MLE and carbine, rather than the SMLE. Aside from that, I really don't think there would be any major changes or effects on WW1. Why do I think that?

OTL, only the British and Americans had adopted the concept of a universal short rifle. This was due to the respective experiences both had in the 2nd Boer and Spanish-American Wars. No other WW1 combatant, with the possible exception of France, did so until after WW1. France had adopted a short rifle prior to WW1, but only for service by colonial troops in Indo-China. No war = no drive for changing a newly adopted rifle.

In regards to lessons learned by others observing the 2nd Boer War, that is an entirely different kettle of fish. Many of the continental armies considered it to be just another colonial frontier war, similar to the Spanish-American War; interesting as a means to test modern equipment in a combat setting, but not really that important in the context of a European war between Great Powers. It would have also confirmed to the European powers that the main threat from the British would be their navy, not their army, given the problems they had squashing those plucky little Africaaner Boers. This means that not having a 2nd Boer War wouldn't really have that much of an effect on how the continental European nations would conduct the war.

As for Transvaal and Orange Free State remaining independent, they would probably still fall under the economic sway of British South Africa, due to being almost entirely surrounded by British colonies. They would probably stay neutral during WW1. This might have an impact on the East African campaign waged against the German colonies, but not too much of one.
 
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marathag

Banned
The army abandoned the traditional red coats, adopted better rifle tactics,
likely to have happened anyway, and the Cult of the Marksman was no better a choice than in the US Army.
Machine Guns were the future, and they missed that.

Each Infantry Battalion had a Section with two Machine Guns, Maxim or the newer Vickers
 
I beleive that there was reforms after the first Boer war but they were not as comprehensive as the reforms after the second Boer war. The Haldene reforms, rifle tactics and a new service dress uniform was adopted after the second boer war.
The 2nd Anglo Boer War was hardly the only conflict the British were involved in at the end of the the 19th Century. There's the end of the Sudan Campaign, The Boxer Rebellion and the ever present operations on the North West Frontier. Many of the lessons would have been learned anyway in those and other conflicts. Personally think that one of the most important effects of no 2nd Anglo Boer War is the Australian, Canadian and New Zealand militaries would be even less prepared for what was to come than they were.
 

marathag

Banned
The British army knew machine guns were the future - but they also learned they were not offensive weapons. They did not end up with the best MG of the entire WW1 by accident.
But at the start, only one heavy Vickers for every 400 men in an Infantry Battalion was shown to be insufficient.
that's why they created the Machine Gun Corps, and in the Infantry Battalion themselves lost the Vickers for many more mobile Lewis Guns
 
I may be incorrect (and I'm sure someone will correct me) but the sweeping changes to the British Army only really came after the extremely embarrassing defeat in the First Boer War. The army abandoned the traditional red coats, adopted better rifle tactics, and placed more emphasis on organization (which saw some limited success in the Anglo-Egyptian War in 1882). There were fiascos in the Second Boer War, but nothing really comparable to the First World War, especially as the conventional phase was over in under a year, while the guerilla phase took longer, for obvious reasons.
Red coats were first replaced in India for the guides around 1846 , traction to move all the army to Khaki ( which I think is Dust in Urdu ) from 1882 at the latest ( mentioned in Hansard around that time) , it was used in the Anglo-Sudan war in the late 1890's and its only coincidence that the change over completed during the Boer War.
A lot of the changes were coming anyway due to experience in Africa, its only irregular tactics ( or more how to fight irregulars that got learned in the Boer war. )
 
But at the start, only one heavy Vickers for every 400 men in an Infantry Battalion was shown to be insufficient.
that's why they created the Machine Gun Corps, and in the Infantry Battalion themselves lost the Vickers for many more mobile Lewis Guns
This was roughly on par with the French. Only the Russians and Germans got the numbers of machine guns "right" from the start.
 
This was roughly on par with the French. Only the Russians and Germans got the numbers of machine guns "right" from the start.
The German and Russian armies weren't, as a general rule, hauling their Maxim Guns along goat tracks to chastise the native population in reluctant colonies.
 
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