WI: NFL Expansion To 40 Teams By 2020

[Protest The Hero]

So... with any POD but for more linearity we shall say the two main POD's must be as follows;

1. After the Houston Texans franchise starts play it is revealed there is a plan to increase to fourty teams by 2020. The divisions shall go from four teams to five and there shall be a sixteen team playoff with a wildcard round beforehand that you are all free to expand upon further in detail. There shall also be an additional bye week for teams to help ease player travel worries.

The expansion cities and states considered are Los Angeles, San Antonio, Oklahoma City, Birmingham/Alabama, Portland, Columbus, Austin, New Mexico, Sacramento, London, Toronto and Vancouver.

2. The NFL merger exists as in OTL but during the eighties as the USFL began to die the CFL suffers greatly and is on the verge of bankruptcy until the NFL swoops in and agrees a merger of all three forming a new North American game and code but still using the NFL name. With the creation of NFL Europa/Europa and then the closure of said league the NFL decides to incorporate certain teams and also revamp the kicking position with more rugby style kicking for PAT's/field goals and punts.

I know this may not be to everyone's taste but interesting to see if this could be done.

 

[Zheng He]

Which POD should we take? The two appear to be mutually exclusive. Either have the big merger in the 80s or a plan for expansion to 40 by 2020.

For an expansion of eight more teams I would say the following cities are locks - LA, London, Toronto, and San Antonio, particularly the first three since the NFL has made it clear they want teams in those cities. Columbus sounds like a nice idea but between Cleveland, Cincinnati, and Ohio State I am sure that fourth big time football team in Ohio is in the cards.

Also, does this preclude any movement of current teams? Currently Jacksonville is not doing well in its home market and after this season the Rams, Raiders, and Chargers all have their stadium leases expiring meaning any one of those teams could move to LA.

 

[Protest The Hero]

Which POD should we take. The two appear to be mutually exclusive. Either have the big merger in the 80s or a plan for expansion to 40 by 2020.

For an expansion of eight more teams I would say the following cities are locks - LA, London, Toronto, and San Antonio, particularly the first three since the NFL has made it clear they want teams in those cities.

Let's go by POD #1 for now and then when that's run its course explore #2. So our challenge is to have 40 teams by 2020

 

[Zheng He]

Okay, that's clears things up.

1. The NFL works with the franchises in San Diego, Oakland, St. Louis, and Jacksonville as well as local and state officials to ensure continued viability of those franchises so they stay put.

2. First round of expansion to be in place by 2016 is LA, San Antonio, Toronto, and London.

3. Second round of expansion to be in place by 2020 involves selecting four cities from a candidate pool of eight. Candidate cities include Oklahoma City, Vancouver, Honolulu, Birmingham, Norfolk/Virginia Beach, Columbus, Las Vegas, and I am not sure about a last city. Maybe Portland, Salt Lake City, or even a second team in Los Angeles.

 

[packmanwiscy]

The first option would require a bit of re-alignment. If the same cities would be used, then I would suggest

NFC

Green Bay Packers
Chicago Bears
Detroit Lions
Minnesota Vikings
Toronto Wildcats

New York Giants
Dallas Cowboys
Philadelphia Eagles
Washington Redskins
London Monachs

New Orleans Saints
Carolina Panthers
Atlanta Falcons
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Birmingham Stallions

San Francisco 49ers
Seattle Seahawks
Arizona Cardinals
Portland Loggers
Los Angeles Gilas

AFC

Indianapolis Colts
St Louis Rams
Cincinnati Bengals
Cleveland Browns
Kansas City Chiefs

Pittsburgh Steelers
Baltimore Ravens
Buffalo Bills
New England Patriots
New York Jets

Miami Dolphins
Jacksonville Jaguars
Houston Texans
Tennessee Titans
San Antonio Tornados

Oakland Raiders
San Diego Chargers
Denver Broncos
Vancouver Grizzlies
Sacramento Kings (NBA team moved prior)


As for the second option, it would be difficult to have a CFL meger. The CFL has a larger field, less downs and more players on the field. The USFL at least had the same rules, but the CFL Iis different. Plus, the NFL has absolutely no interest in absorbing the CFL. The CFL struggled financially, the US instead opted to give money to the CFL to keep them afloat. The NFL has no interest in joining the CFL.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

The expansion cities and states considered are Los Angeles, San Antonio, Oklahoma City, Birmingham/Alabama, Portland, Columbus, Austin, New Mexico, Sacramento, London, Toronto and Vancouver.

Hmmm... The NFL has, afaik, never tried to expand to Canada, and would encounter opposition if it tried from the CFL and those supporting it.

I suppose you could, perhaps, somehow, get the CFL to join the merger, which gives you ready-made teams in Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Hamilton, Winnipeg, Saskatchewan, Edmonton, Calgary and BC.

PS. I assume 'London' here means England, not Ontario, right?
So, call it the International Football League

 

[Zheng He]

Hmmm... The NFL has, afaik, never tried to expand to Canada, and would encounter opposition if it tried from the CFL and those supporting it.

I suppose you could, perhaps, somehow, get the CFL to join the merger, which gives you ready-made teams in Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Hamilton, Winnipeg, Saskatchewan, Edmonton, Calgary and BC.

PS. I assume 'London' here means England, not Ontario, right?
So, call it the International Football League

I have heard different views on that. We vacationed in Canada this summer and I talked to a guy who is a big sports fan and he said while a lot of people won't admit it, they would love to have an NFL team in Toronto. He said that the CFL is much more popular in the west than it is in the east and that most, especially in the east, understand that the CFL is second rate football compared to the NFL.

Conversely I have also heard Canadians say that an NFL team anywhere in Canada would go over like lead balloon.

 

[Zheng He]

Hmmm... The NFL has, afaik, never tried to expand to Canada, and would encounter opposition if it tried from the CFL and those supporting it.

I suppose you could, perhaps, somehow, get the CFL to join the merger, which gives you ready-made teams in Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Hamilton, Winnipeg, Saskatchewan, Edmonton, Calgary and BC.

PS. I assume 'London' here means England, not Ontario, right?
So, call it the International Football League

BTW, there was serious discussion about the Bills moving to Toronto if Jon Bon Jovi bought the team but that has not happened.

 

[packmanwiscy]

Okay, that's clears things up.

1. The NFL works with the franchises in San Diego, Oakland, St. Louis, and Jacksonville as well as local and state officials to ensure continued viability of those franchises so they stay put.

2. First round of expansion to be in place by 2016 is LA, San Antonio, Toronto, and London.

3. Second round of expansion to be in place by 2020 involves selecting four cities from a candidate pool of eight. Candidate cities include Oklahoma City, Vancouver, Honolulu, Birmingham, Norfolk/Virginia Beach, Columbus, Las Vegas, and I am not sure about a last city. Maybe Portland, Salt Lake City, or even a second team in Los Angeles.

The first 4 teams are a given. The NFL has expressed interests in all four of those cities. Portland is a growing city, I feel like the NFL would really want to expand there, so that's five.The NFL wants to go international, so Vancouver seems like a nautural choise. Birmingham has proved via other leages that they can hold a successfull football franchise (despite the league itself folding, look it up if you don't believe me), and the NFL needs anthoner Deep South team, so Birmingham is a go. I think those 7 are decently likely.
The last franchise is a tossup. In 2002, the Sacramento Kings are really good, and the NFL might want to go there. Honolulu is also very interesting. Columbus seems like a good choise, but 3 Ohio teams might be too much. The NFL won't look at Vegas because of gambling. If the Thunder are butterflied away, then they are in desperate need for a team, so that might be the best option, but if the Supersonics move, then the chance drops down a bit. I can't see Salt Lake hosting an NFL team, and a Virginia team I don't think would get much support as most Virginians would still follow the Redskins.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

He said that the CFL is much more popular in the west than it is in the east and that most, especially in the east, understand that the CFL is second rate football compared to the NFL.

1) ja, all this may well be true.
2) the objections MAY come less from the fans (who, as your friend says, might not be willing to express a preference for a US team publicly) than from Governments. Look at the way the Harper government stopped the sale of Potash Corp from one foreign company to another for being 'not in the national interest' (read, he thought it would play well in Canada).

 

[Zheng He]

The first 4 teams are a given. The NFL has expressed interests in all four of those cities. Portland is a growing city, I feel like the NFL would really want to expand there, so that's five.The NFL wants to go international, so Vancouver seems like a nautural choise. Birmingham has proved via other leages that they can hold a successfull football franchise (despite the league itself folding, look it up if you don't believe me), and the NFL needs anthoner Deep South team, so Birmingham is a go. I think those 7 are decently likely.
The last franchise is a tossup. In 2002, the Sacramento Kings are really good, and the NFL might want to go there. Honolulu is also very interesting. Columbus seems like a good choise, but 3 Ohio teams might be too much. The NFL won't look at Vegas because of gambling. If the Thunder are butterflied away, then they are in desperate need for a team, so that might be the best option, but if the Supersonics move, then the chance drops down a bit. I can't see Salt Lake hosting an NFL team, and a Virginia team I don't think would get much support as most Virginians would still follow the Redskins.

Good points but one of the first things that will need to happen is my first POD where the NFL works with teams and cities (and states) to keep teams where they are. The reason I say that is that here in the real world the Raiders are talking to San Antonio (was on ESPN.com today) and there is serious talk of either the Raiders, Rams, or Chargers moving to LA. Of course Jacksonville to London is always in the background noise.

So for expansion I see - LA, San Antonio, London, Toronto, Portland, Vancouver, Oklahoma City, and Birmingham.

Just losing out are:

• Columbus - Ohio State dominates as do the Browns and to a lesser extent the Bengals.
• Honolulu - state population is too limited and it is too expensive for away game fans to travel to whereas London can draw on other countries in Europe.
• Sacramento - Keeping the Raiders in Oakland is contingent on no team in Sacramento.
• Portland - Edged out by Vancouver.
• Salt Lake City - Too small.
• Las Vegas - NFL tries to market itself as family friendly and Vegas ain't that.
• Norfolk/Virginia Beach - Market already split between Redskins and Panthers.

 

[Zheng He]

BTW, the 1980s are too late for a CFL merger POD. By then the financial disparity between the two leagues was too great and only getting larger.

For a CFL merger POD you need to go back to the 1960s when there was more financial parity, Canadian and American teams actually played occasionally in exhibition games (the CFL team even beat the Bills in one of them), and you had another competitor league in the AFL. Only this time they go all in on an uber-merger between the NFL, AFL, and CFL creating the North American Football League.

 

[Wildcard F. Kennedy]

Logistically there needs to be two teams in London. Due to travel considerations and what not. Very similar to the Giants and Dodgers leaving New York and heading to California back when. I belive the Dodgers owner wouldn't go unlesss someone else (another team) came with him. Largely for the logistics of travel and away games.

 

[The Gunslinger]

Hmmm... The NFL has, afaik, never tried to expand to Canada, and would encounter opposition if it tried from the CFL and those supporting it.

I suppose you could, perhaps, somehow, get the CFL to join the merger, which gives you ready-made teams in Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Hamilton, Winnipeg, Saskatchewan, Edmonton, Calgary and BC.

PS. I assume 'London' here means England, not Ontario, right?
So, call it the International Football League

What would be more likely is that the NFL would push for a team in Toronto and face oppostion from the CFL who ends up being bought off by the more prosperous NFL. Part of the condition is that the new Toronto NFL team basically subsidizes the Argos (and the CFL in general).

 

[Blurgle]

I don't think Vancouver is even a remote possibility. It's less of an NFL city than it was an NBA city. You'd get bigger crowds in Saskatchewan than in Vancouver, and that's not saying the NFL would go there either.

 

[bsmart]

Logistically there needs to be two teams in London. Due to travel considerations and what not. Very similar to the Giants and Dodgers leaving New York and heading to California back when. I belive the Dodgers owner wouldn't go unlesss someone else (another team) came with him. Largely for the logistics of travel and away games.

I don't think two in London but at least two in the UK (Birmingham, Leeds, Sheffield, Manchester, Liverpool, Edinburgh, Glasgow?)

 

[packmanwiscy]

I don't think two in London but at least two in the UK (Birmingham, Leeds, Sheffield, Manchester, Liverpool, Edinburgh, Glasgow?)

If you want another team in Europe to go with London, I would go with Berlin. NFL Europa was really popular there, but the NFL would probably need to run some test games to actually see if there is some interest.

 

[Legend-in-Exile]

I don't think two in London but at least two in the UK (Birmingham, Leeds, Sheffield, Manchester, Liverpool, Edinburgh, Glasgow?)

If you want another team in Europe to go with London, I would go with Berlin. NFL Europa was really popular there, but the NFL would probably need to run some test games to actually see if there is some interest.

More than one team might divide the support too much. Currently fans from all over europe go to the London games. Put a team in Berlin and fans from Scandinavia, eastern and central europe all have a closer venue (in Schengen too) So it may hurt the number of fans attending in London. Perhaps they could try a few international series games elsewhere to test the viability.

Or wait for the game to become really popular due to the London team? (London does appear the favoured European destination for numerous reasons)

Maybe the Vikings could move to Stockholm eventually