WI: More Nations Join the Haudenosaunee (Iroquois) Confederacy?

[Daedalus]

Though the Haudenosaunee have long been the Five Nations consisting of the Seneca, Cayuga, Onondaga, Oneida, and Mohawk, it was in 1722 that the Tuscarora joined as the Sixth Nation, suggesting that they were open to the inclusion of other Iroquoian-speaking tribes. However, that did not happen IOTL. What if other nations were added to Iroquois Confederacy such as the Wenro, Erie, Wyandot, or Susquehannoc? What stopped these other nations from joining the Confederation despite speaking the same language or receiving the benefits of being part of a stronger and internally peaceful alliance?

And what would this mean for the relations between the Haudenosaunee and the British, French, Canadians, and Americans who would come through their lands? How might the Revolution be altered, or even the French-Indian War before that?

 

[Just a Rube]

One big thing is that the Iroquois didn't really want the other nations as full members. Even the Tuscarora were kind of half members at first. The more members you had, the less power the original nations had.

We do know that the Iroquois claimed some sort of protectorship role over many of the other tribes during the 18th century, claiming the right to act on their behalf (and to incidentally interpose themselves whenever those tribes tried to deal directly with other Europeans, and take a larger share of the trade). Those tribes were generally ambivalent at best about said claims of protectorship, but were usually too weak to actively oppose them (although that didn't stop them from constantly trying to reach out to various French and British colonial governors and trying to cut deals).

It's also important to remember that most of our knowledge of the detailed workings of the Iroquoian government come from significantly later (post-ARW). It's not clear how well that translates to earlier periods, when most of our written records comes from various European ambassadors and traders, who clearly did not entirely understand what they saw (both because natives intentionally misled them at times, and because of their own European biases and tendency to exoticize things). The political situation in 1700 was very different from 1800.

 

[highwayhoss]

Here's a video on the Confederacy that describes their political organization:

As you can see, the government was a very complex organization.

Though the Haudenosaunee have long been the Five Nations consisting of the Seneca, Cayuga, Onondaga, Oneida, and Mohawk, it was in 1722 that the Tuscarora joined as the Sixth Nation, suggesting that they were open to the inclusion of other Iroquoian-speaking tribes. However, that did not happen IOTL. What if other nations were added to Iroquois Confederacy such as the Wenro, Erie, Wyandot, or Susquehannoc? What stopped these other nations from joining the Confederation despite speaking the same language or receiving the benefits of being part of a stronger and internally peaceful alliance?

One big thing is that the Iroquois didn't really want the other nations as full members. Even the Tuscarora were kind of half members at first. The more members you had, the less power the original nations had.

Other tribes would probably be treated like the Tuscaora; they would be made a "sibling" but not be given representation on the Council. However if enough tribes were brought in (especially more powerful ones) the Haudenosaunee would have to restructure their government to give some representation on the Council.

 

[Wolttaire]

Well what if they just had a more expansitionist attitude and more like Rome come and join us or we burn the land and move in if that realistic

 

[Kerney]

The Haudenosunee didn't want tribes, but they did want people from those tribe to become Haudenosunee.

They were good at assimilating large percentages of the people they conquered i.e. taking captives and in few years turning them into loyal Haudenosaunee with families and a place in society. In the Beaver wars, more than 50% of former Huron joined their former captors and adopting refugees, such as the survivors of King Philips War into their structure.

This really helped them keep up their numbers. So I don't think it takes much to tweak them just a little and have some long term consquences. Have them take one tribe in earlier, say the 1630s. Doesn't matter if it's the Erie, Neutral, or whomever, but come up with a viable reason.

Otl in the 1640's I think (I'm going off memory, so details may be wrong) they almost overran Quebec, as in driving the French out. So with a few more men have them do so. That's a big PoD. Have them assimilate large numbers of women and children. This makes them more disease resistant.

Less likely but fun, have the New England Tribes that fought in King Phillip's war ask the Haudenosaunee for back up against the New Englanders and the Dutch supplying weapons (which they did up until 1664), who were their great early allies. End New England circa 1660 and assimilate the women and children.

Have the Dutch, with bases on the Hudson and St Lawerence take over the "French" role of primary fur traders with the Haudenosaunee being in a more dominant position than otl and the English ruling from Pennsylvania south.