WI: Meade dies at Gettysburg on the 3rd day. What happens next?

I think there are 4 main choices from what I can see. He could:
1) Appoint Sedgwick, already on the field, experienced with the Army, and probably in acting command.

2) Appoint Grant and orders him to move to meet the AotP, as soon as he gets news of Gettysburg and Vicksburg

3) Appoint Slocum, or one of the other Corps commanders, over Sedgwick if he, or Winfield Scott, thinks they'll do better than Sedgwick.

4) He recalls one of the other generals he's already fired.

#1 seems most likely.
Always figured #2 was most likely after news of Vicksburg reaches the East. Think about it from Lincolns PoV. You just lost the guy in command of an army desperately needing a victory. You have Generals from said army who could take charge but all have their flaws with the leading candidates main one being too cautious.(Remind anyone one of someone who had been in charge of the AotP a couple of times before?) Then news comes in from the west about the Victory at Vicksburg and the general who seems to always win and Lincoln will need to think long and hard before deciding not to give Grant the job IF he doesn't end up giving it to him.
 
My apologies, I must have missed that when I read the intro.

No problem. I only said that to make sure there were no "This'll make Pickett's Charge break the Union Army" stuff. Plus by the time of the Bombardment you can't really change the actual battle and charge.
 
Maybe Grant can petition Lincoln to appoint Sherman as Commander of the AoP? Do you think that would be a possibility?

I have no clue honestly but probably not.. Though you might have Sherman come east as well and could potentially see George Thomas left in charge of the AofT.
 
I think Peter Tsouras Gettysburg ...

http://www.amazon.com/Gettysburg-Al...qid=1413819783&sr=1-23&keywords=tsouras+peter

... covers this. And its one of the better Gettysburg what ifs, and a good read as well. Although personally prefer his earlier Disaster at D-Day and it is noticeably superior than some of his later work!

Tsouras' Gettysburg leaves a LOT to be desired. Nine chapters of brave and glorious Johnny Rebs kicking the retreating butts of weak and cowardly Billy Yanks until...Epilogue. With no details at all, you see Longstreet surrendering the AoNV simply because they were caught in flank and Lee was kind enough to drop dead. Hack writing.:mad:

I think most historians feel the AotP COULD have pursued and caught Lee's army before, or as, it crossed the river, causing severe damage. The AOP had suffered, but not nearly as bad as Lee's and it had momentum, supply, etc. IIRC, Lincoln chided Meade for not doing so.

As of the late morning of July 4th, the rains started. By late afternoon, it was a torrential downpour with very high winds and serious flooding. Neither side was in a position to attack for days after that.

Assuming the same command casualties there is not a single Commander with a aggressive bone in their body in able to led. The army of the Potomac remaining leaders where not in my opinion capable of leading a army with 4 of it's corps under new or inexperienced leaders and with the remaining leaders not known for offensive leadership. Another issue is that Meade ordered most of the Army supplies back aboult a day away including food so at least a day would be needed to resupply before anything could be done.

Not to mention that I, III, and XI Corps were little more than remnants in terms of being able to fight in any form other than in defense.

Actually as I review the dates of rank, Sedgwick does have an earlier date of rank to Maj Gen (4 Jul 62) vs Slocum (25 Jul 62, so he would be senior. My thinking was based on the fact that Slocum was senior on the battlefield before Mead (and Sedgwick) arrived.

From what I've read Sedgwick was considered very capable, but not very aggressive. When he died at Spotsylvania Courthouse in 1864, Grant said he was a tremenous loss, and Lee expressed sadness at the loss of an old friend. Interestingly, he died leading pretty bravely (or foolishly), walking around in the open, chiding his men for running about to dodge bullets.

Anyway, I guess the point remains the same, it's unclear whether any (temporary) Union commander after Meade's fall would be any more aggressive at pursuing Lee. I guess one could concoct a supposition where Sedgwick does pursue aggressively, but you'd really have to get into his mindset to argue persuasively that's likely.

With Meade, Reynolds, and Hancock gone or out of action, indeed Sedgwick would be the obvious and immediate choice. In addition, he seems to have been one of the few senior corps commanders not to have been too deeply damaged by the McClellan-inspired dog-eat-dog politics of the AotP.

As an army commander assuming command in mid-battle, any commander would be either very reckless or very cautious. Certainly for Sedgwick the choice would be to be the latter.

I think there are 4 main choices from what I can see. He could:
1) Appoint Sedgwick, already on the field, experienced with the Army, and probably in acting command.<snip>

Agreed. Easiest decision to make, and Sedgwick as a total newbie might even draw less fire from Lincoln for not "catching" Lee.

Maybe Grant can petition Lincoln to appoint Sherman as Commander of the AoP? Do you think that would be a possibility?

Nope. Sherman wouldn't take that job on a solid gold platter. His hatred of Washington was almost pathological, and the farther he could stay away from the cesspool of vipers, the better.

I have no clue honestly but probably not.. Though you might have Sherman come east as well and could potentially see George Thomas left in charge of the AofT.

Grant didn't have the trust in Thomas that he did in Sherman. He and Sherman had been in the war together since Shiloh, while Thomas he inherited following Chickamauga. He also wanted to keep as an AotP commander a general from inside that army, to "promote from within".

IOTL, Grant arrived at AotP headquarters to find Meade (ITTL Sedgwick) fully expecting to be relieved. In fact, MEADE believed that Sherman was on his way to replace him. Grant himself had only brought along Sheridan to replace Pleasanton, but he had not made a decision one way or the other whether to fire Meade and replace him with one of the AotP's corps commanders (of whom at that point he knew virtually nothing). Meade's presentation to Grant of the circumstances in the East, including his famous statement: "The problems of this army will not be solved just by the replacement of a few corps commanders!", so pleased Grant by its (and Meade's) professionalism [1] that he immediately decided that Meade would stay, much to Meade's surprise (and delight:D).

So, ITTL, the question would be what would Sedgwick do in Meade's place? Assuming OTL events prior to Grant's arrival, if Sedgwick performs as Meade did, how would Sedgwick handle, say, the Overland Campaign?:confused: Which Meade himself carried out (under Grant), with ruthless efficiency.
 
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Sedgwick was nearly removed after Gettysburg for trying to put a dinner together in honor of McClellan and having McClellan 's brother on his staff.
 
gettysburg what if

Tsouras' Gettysburg leaves a LOT to be desired. Nine chapters of brave and glorious Johnny Rebs kicking the retreating butts of weak and cowardly Billy Yanks until...Epilogue. With no details at all, you see Longstreet surrendering the AoNV simply because they were caught in flank and Lee was kind enough to drop dead. Hack writing.:mad:



As of the late morning, the rains started. By late afternoon, it was a torrential downpour with very high winds and serious flooding. Neither side was in a position to attack for days after that.



Not to mention that I, III, and XI Corps were little more than remnants in terms of being able to fight in any form other than in defense.



With Meade, Reynolds, and Hancock gone or out of action, indeed Sedgwick would be the obvious and immediate choice. In addition, he seems to have been one of the few senior corps commanders not to have been too deeply damaged by the McClellan-inspired dog-eat-dog politics of the AotP.

As an army commander assuming command in mid-battle, any commander would bee either very reckless or very cautious. Certainly for Sedgwick the choice would be to be the latter.



Agreed. Easiest decision to make, and Sedgwick as a total newbie might even draw less fire from Lincoln for not "catching" Lee.



Nope. Sherman wouldn't take that job on a solid gold platter. His hatred of Washington was almost pathological, and the farther he could stay away from the cesspool of vipers, the better.



Grant didn't have the trust in Thomas that he did in Sherman. He and Sherman had been in the war together since Shiloh, while Thomas he inherited following Chickamauga. He also wanted to keep as an AotP commander a general from inside that army, to "promote from within".

IOTL, Grant arrived at AotP headquarters to find Meade (ITTL Sedgwick) fully expecting to be relieved. In fact, MEADE believed that Sherman was on his way to replace him. Grant himself had only brought along Sheridan to replace Pleasanton, but he had not made a decision one way or the other whether to fire Meade and replace him with one of the AotP's corps commanders (of whom at that point he knew virtually nothing). Meade's presentation to Grant of the circumstances in the East, including his famous statement: "The problems of this army will not be solved just by the replacement of a few corps commanders!", so pleased Grant by its (and Meade's) professionalism [1] that he immediately decided that Meade would stay, much to Meade's surprise (and delight:D).

So, ITTL, the question would be what would Sedgwick do in Meade's place? Assuming OTL events prior to Grant's arrival, if Sedgwick performs as Meade did, how would Sedgwick handle, say, the Overland Campaign?:confused: Which Meade himself carried out (under Grant), with ruthless efficiency.

Lee didn't die in that book. He was evacuated by Major Taylor along the Chambersburg Pike after the battle , trying to get him back to Virginia. Unfortunately, he and his escort were ambushed by a column of union Calvary and captured to the surprise of th union officer in charge.
 
Sedgwick was nearly removed after Gettysburg for trying to put a dinner together in honor of McClellan and having McClellan 's brother on his staff.

:mad:Hmm. When exactly did this happen, and who was going to remove him? Meade?:confused: The dinner is one thing but threatening to fire someone because a staff officer chose his kinsman unwisely sounds like AotP politics at its worst.:mad:

Lee didn't die in that book. He was evacuated by Major Taylor along the Chambersburg Pike after the battle , trying to get him back to Virginia. Unfortunately, he and his escort were ambushed by a column of union Calvary and captured to the surprise of th union officer in charge.

Are you absolutely sure about that?:confused: I still have that book around here somewhere, and yes I do remember the parts that you are describing, but I could swear that when the Union cavalry officer showed up, Major Taylor said something poetic about "General Lee is no longer here..."
 
gettysburg what if 2

:mad:Hmm. When exactly did this happen, and who was going to remove him? Meade?:confused: The dinner is one thing but threatening to fire someone because a staff officer chose his kinsman unwisely sounds like AotP politics at its worst.:mad:



Are you absolutely sure about that?:confused: I still have that book around here somewhere, and yes I do remember the parts that you are describing, but I could swear that when the Union cavalry officer showed up, Major Taylor said something poetic about "General Lee is no longer here..."
No, he told the Union officer that he had not only captured him, but also general Lee too. Also, I think I told you the wrong aide, it was major Marshall that evacuated General Lee from Gettysburg.
 
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