WI: LBJ Assassinated

Okay, so kinda odd scenario but the setup doesn't matter as much as the outcome. Let's just say that, for some reason, LBJ and JFK ride in the same car on 11-22-63. Perhaps he's sitting in the back with Jack if the First Lady is ill or maybe him and governor Connely switch spots or who knows what.

I just wonder what would happen if Oswald (or whoever was really behind it lol) shoots LBJ instead, likely on accident, but JFK survives.

It takes some doing, as POTUS and VPOTUS usually travel in seperate cars but I wouldn't exactly call it ASB to get them together. ORRR perhaps at a meet-and-greet before or after the motorcade takes off LBJ walks right in front of Jack right as the gun fires, killing him instantly.

So, what happens? :)
 
Massive outpouring of grief for the vice president, JFK stops riding in convertibles, the 25th amendment gets passed on more or less the same schedule as OTL, JFK likely escalates somewhat in Vietnam but no Gulf of Tonkin or massive US involvement, and signs the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (although there's a pervasive belief that the passage of the Civil Rights Act was due to Johnson's legislative skills/Kennedy's death, it was already well on its way to passing by November, 1963) and Voting Rights Act of 1965, but not the Great Socieyt programs.
 
LBJ was in Dallas at the time of the assassination. I'm not sure exactly where, but the assassin would have to be targeting him specifically, and for the moment, the secret service was concerned there might be more trouble waiting. In any case, the VP office is vacant and the 25th Amendment would be drafted. Without LBJ, RFK might remain attorney general for another term, placing somebody else in his senate seat. So, who will be JFK's second VP after 1964?
 
LBJ was in Dallas at the time of the assassination. I'm not sure exactly where, but the assassin would have to be targeting him specifically, and for the moment, the secret service was concerned there might be more trouble waiting. In any case, the VP office is vacant and the 25th Amendment would be drafted. Without LBJ, RFK might remain attorney general for another term, placing somebody else in his senate seat. So, who will be JFK's second VP after 1964?

He was in the motorcade - behind JFK.
 

Deleted member 94680

... signs the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (although there's a pervasive belief that the passage of the Civil Rights Act was due to Johnson's legislative skills/Kennedy's death, it was already well on its way to passing by November, 1963) ...

In the days following the assassination, Lyndon B. Johnson made an address to Congress saying that "No memorial oration or eulogy could more eloquently honour President Kennedy's memory than the earliest possible passage of the Civil Rights Bill for which he fought so long." The wave of national grief following the assassination gave enormous momentum to Johnson's promise to carry out Kennedy's plans and his policy of seizing Kennedy's legacy to give momentum to his legislative agenda. Civil Rights Act of 1964 wiki page

Everything I've read makes me believe that in '63 the Bill was nowhere near passing, let alone "well on it's way". Johnson had to do a hell of a lot of politicking to get that Bill passed, he was hardly pushing against an open door.

LBJ was in Dallas at the time of the assassination. I'm not sure exactly where, but the assassin would have to be targeting him specifically, and for the moment, the secret service was concerned there might be more trouble waiting.

Johnson had accompanied Kennedy to Dallas and was riding two cars behind the President in the motorcade. Assassination of John F. Kennedy wiki page
 
There's a strong chance that JFK would have still died in office due to having Addison's disease.
But how soon? There was speculation that his back pain was so bad that he would be campaigning from a wheelchair. Or possibly he wouldn't run for the same reason (not likely).
 
Everything I've read makes me believe that in '63 the Bill was nowhere near passing, let alone "well on it's way". Johnson had to do a hell of a lot of politicking to get that Bill passed, he was hardly pushing against an open door.

Before his death JFK had persuaded the Republican house leadership to back the bill. It wasn't on the verge of passing, but Kennedy had made substantial progress before he died. LBJ continued and probably accelerated the process when he took office.
 
But how soon? There was speculation that his back pain was so bad that he would be campaigning from a wheelchair. Or possibly he wouldn't run for the same reason (not likely).

Actually I've read that Kennedy's health was improving somewhat in 1963, as he was no longer seeing Dr. Jacobson (aka Dr. Feelgood) and he was undergoing more effective treatments. I don't think Addison's would have much of an effect on 1964, but by the late 1960s it may be taking a greater toll on Kennedy. After he leaves office in 1969 I imagine that his life would become increasingly difficult due to Addison's. The average life expectancy for males with Addison's is 75 years, so Kennedy could live into the early 1990s.
 

Deleted member 94680

Actually I've read that Kennedy's health was improving somewhat in 1963, as he was no longer seeing Dr. Jacobson (aka Dr. Feelgood) and he was undergoing more effective treatments. I don't think Addison's would have much of an effect on 1964, but by the late 1960s it may be taking a greater toll on Kennedy. After he leaves office in 1969 I imagine that his life would become increasingly difficult due to Addison's. The average life expectancy for males with Addison's is 75 years, so Kennedy could live into the early 1990s.

A new FDR? Hiding his illness by carefully stage managed appearances and cooperative pressmen?
 
A new FDR? Hiding his illness by carefully stage managed appearances and cooperative pressmen?
Even if he needed a wheelchair or assistance to walk/stand later in his second term, he would have no need to hide it. By that time, there was no need to put up a front. Rather than admit to Addison's, he might come up with some other story, such as navy injury during the war, etc.
 
A few minutes of googling brought this:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wo...-shot-dead-hours-after-JFK-assassination.html

Also, I recall reading somewhere that trigger happy secret servicemen nearly killed Johnson in the motorcade. This was not a good day for the secret service.

The mods don't look favorably on conspiracy theories, but I always had a problem with the "LBJ was behind it" ones simply due to the implausibility of someone masterminding a plot where he nearly got killed himself, and Johnson really did nearly get killed that day. However, its more likely to get a scenario where both Kennedy and Johnson die than just Johnson. Another plausible scenario is Conally's death but not Kennedy's, echoing what happened in the 1932 assassination attempt on FDR.

Both Kennedy and Johnson die, and the Presidential Succession Act takes effect for the first time in American history, and this man becomes at least acting President:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_W._McCormack

Just killing Johnson and not Kennedy has less of an effect, though there would be conspiracy theories of Kennedy being behind the plot. However, all three pols were pretty close on policies.
 
Everything I've read makes me believe that in '63 the Bill was nowhere near passing, let alone "well on it's way". Johnson had to do a hell of a lot of politicking to get that Bill passed, he was hardly pushing against an open door.

IMO the impact of Johnson's politicking tends to be overrated. Elected representatives vote based on their reelection goals, not to please the President. The Civil Rights Act already had widespread support everywhere outside the south, and it would have passed after the 1964 election if not before.
 
LBJ assassinated kills Civil Rights too. Quite possibly long enough for the 1966 midterms to close out hope of passing a strong bill. Trying to pass civil rights ruins Kennedy's legislative agenda for ‘64; certainly no chance of the ambition of Johnson’s Great Society after a probable re-election.

How LBJ Saved the Civil Rights Act by Michael O’Donnell (The Atlantic, April 2014)
Symbolism was the least of it. Johnson took off his jacket and tore into the legislative process intimately and tirelessly. […] The best hope of moving the civil-rights bill from the House Rules Committee—whose segregationist chairman, Howard Smith of Virginia, had no intention of relinquishing it—was a procedure called a “discharge petition.” If a majority of House members sign a discharge petition, a bill is taken from the committee, to the chagrin of its chairman. Johnson made the petition his own personal crusade. Even Risen credits his zeal, noting that after receiving a list of 22 House members vulnerable to pressure on the petition, the president immediately ordered the White House switchboard to get them on the phone, wherever they could be found. Johnson engaged an army of lieutenants—businessmen, civil-rights leaders, labor officials, journalists, and allies on the Hill—to go out and find votes for the discharge petition. He cut a deal that secured half a dozen votes from the Texas delegation. He showed Martin Luther King Jr. a list of uncommitted Republicans and, as Caro writes, “told King to work on them.” He directed one labor leader to “talk to every human you could,” saying, “if we fail on this, then we fail in everything.”

As a leading southern senator put it, “You know, we could have beaten John Kennedy on civil rights, but not Lyndon Johnson.”

The pressure worked. On December 4—not two weeks into Johnson’s presidency—the implacable Chairman Smith began to give way. […] House Republican Leader Charles Halleck of Indiana, whose support Johnson likely bought by proposing, and then personally securing, a NASA research facility at Purdue University, in Halleck’s district. And the entire Republican caucus in the House was wilting under Johnson’s relentless and very public campaign to portray “the party of Lincoln” as obstructing civil rights by opposing the discharge petition.
[…]
As Caro explains, the tax bill was a hostage. By holding it in committee, the South pressured the administration to give up on civil-rights legislation, with the implication that the withdrawal of the latter might produce movement on the former. But Johnson and Byrd were old friends, and during an elaborate White House lunch they came to an understanding: if Johnson submitted a budget below $100 billion, Byrd would release the tax bill. Johnson then personally bullied department heads to reduce their appropriations requests, and delivered a budget of $97.9 billion. The Finance Committee passed the tax bill on January 23, 1964, with Byrd casting the deciding vote to allow a vote, then weighing in against the measure itself. The Senate passed the tax bill on February 7, mere days before the civil-rights bill cleared the House.

Finally, Johnson helped usher the bill to passage in the Senate by working to break the southern filibuster, which was led by his political patron, the formidable Richard Russell of Georgia. In light of the Senate’s fiercely guarded independence, the president could not operate in the open; he had to use proxies like Humphrey, who was his protégé and future vice president, as well as the bill’s floor manager. Johnson impressed upon Humphrey that the vain and flamboyant Senate Republican Leader Everett Dirksen of Illinois was the key to delivering the Republican votes needed for cloture:

“You and I are going to get Ev. It’s going to take time. We’re going to get him. You make up your mind now that you’ve got to spend time with Ev Dirksen. You’ve got to let him have a piece of the action. He’s got to look good all the time. Don’t let those [liberal] bomb throwers, now, talk you out of seeing Dirksen. You get in there to see Dirksen. You drink with Dirksen! You talk with Dirksen! You listen to Dirksen!”

Johnson demanded constant updates from Humphrey and Majority Leader Mike Mansfield, and always urged more-aggressive tactics. (“The president grabbed me by my shoulder and damn near broke my arm,” said Humphrey.) Even though Senate Democrats did not deploy all those tactics, Johnson’s intensity nevertheless set the tone and supplied its own momentum. He kept up a steady stream of speeches and public appearances demanding Senate passage of the strong House bill, undiluted by horse-trading. And he personally lobbied senators to vote for cloture and end the filibuster. Risen contends that Johnson “persuaded exactly one senator” to change his vote on cloture. Given that it is of course impossible to know what motivated each senator’s final decision, this lowball figure is expressed with too much certitude. Evidence presented by Purdum and Caro suggests that Johnson’s importuning, bribing, and threatening may have made an impact on closer to a dozen.
 
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