WI: Jean Lannes survives the Battle of Aspern-Essling

[Mort the Reaper]

Napoleon lost 23,000 men at the Battle of Aspern-Essling in 1809. One of them was Jean Lannes, a close friend of the Emperor and one of his most talented generals.

What if Lannes had survived the battle? How would things have been different?

 

[Vae Victus]

I feel like Lannes is one of the few men that Napoleon would listen to in any situation. Napoleon was often pigheaded and refused to listen to his subordinates, but it seems to me that if Lannes suggested something or reported something Nappy is quick to agree or comes running.

IIRC during the battle of Jena, Lannes left wing V Corps made first contact with the Prussian rear guard, reported it, and Nappy came running with the rest of the army as they then proceeded to beat down the poor outnumbered Prussians. Davout III Corps then had to face 1v2 odds at Auerstadt against the Prussian main body. Luckily for the French, Davout skillwise was equal to Nappy and he pulled off a win despite the odds.

If for example Davout and Lannes corps positions were swapped, and Davout reported 1st contact, i rather doubt Nappy woulda come running with the whole army. I've a distinct feeling Napoleon woulda been more cautious with Lannes all strung out on the march far away from the main body unsupported. Hell in that situation, i can see Bernadotte I Corps not being a dawdling bitch and come rushing to Lannes corps aid. Davout was a hard-ass liked by few and not a charismatic favorite like Lannes. If Lannes got killed or wounded due to Bernadotte's dawdling, Nappy woulda legit shot his ass for negligence or at the very least strip Bernadotte's rank and boot him. If Bernadotte quickly supported Lannes at Auerstadt and helped score a major victory then maybe there wouldnt be a rift between Nappy/Bernadotte and he wouldnt have gone off to Sweden.

Lannes was one of Nappy's best men and fiercely loyal, so if he survived the long haul, good odds he'd get killed after Nappy's 1st abdication. If he still managed to survive that and was preset at alt-Waterloo (or taken Davout's place in Paris and Davout goes to Waterloo), Lannes surviving would prolly help Nappy drag out the inevitable a bit longer.

Would be interesting to see the butterflies if Wellington-Blucher were crushed and the Russo-Austrians had to finish the job.

 

[Old1812]

I feel like Lannes is one of the few men that Napoleon would listen to in any situation. Napoleon was often pigheaded and refused to listen to his subordinates, but it seems to me that if Lannes suggested something or reported something Nappy is quick to agree or comes running.

IIRC during the battle of Jena, Lannes left wing V Corps made first contact with the Prussian rear guard, reported it, and Nappy came running with the rest of the army as they then proceeded to beat down the poor outnumbered Prussians. Davout III Corps then had to face 1v2 odds at Auerstadt against the Prussian main body. Luckily for the French, Davout skillwise was equal to Nappy and he pulled off a win despite the odds.

If for example Davout and Lannes corps positions were swapped, and Davout reported 1st contact, i rather doubt Nappy woulda come running with the whole army. I've a distinct feeling Napoleon woulda been more cautious with Lannes all strung out on the march far away from the main body unsupported. Hell in that situation, i can see Bernadotte I Corps not being a dawdling bitch and come rushing to Lannes corps aid. Davout was a hard-ass liked by few and not a charismatic favorite like Lannes. If Lannes got killed or wounded due to Bernadotte's dawdling, Nappy woulda legit shot his ass for negligence or at the very least strip Bernadotte's rank and boot him. If Bernadotte quickly supported Lannes at Auerstadt and helped score a major victory then maybe there wouldnt be a rift between Nappy/Bernadotte and he wouldnt have gone off to Sweden.

Lannes was one of Nappy's best men and fiercely loyal, so if he survived the long haul, good odds he'd get killed after Nappy's 1st abdication. If he still managed to survive that and was preset at alt-Waterloo (or taken Davout's place in Paris and Davout goes to Waterloo), Lannes surviving would prolly help Nappy drag out the inevitable a bit longer.

Would be interesting to see the butterflies if Wellington-Blucher were crushed and the Russo-Austrians had to finish the job.

Before discussing the Hundred Days, it may be worth it to consider the impact Lannes could have on the Russian campaign. I don't think his presence alone could change things, but it could change a few battles.

 

[alexmilman]

If for example Davout and Lannes corps positions were swapped, and Davout reported 1st contact, i rather doubt Nappy woulda come running with the whole army. I've a distinct feeling Napoleon woulda been more cautious with Lannes all strung out on the march far away from the main body unsupported. Hell in that situation, i can see Bernadotte I Corps not being a dawdling bitch and come rushing to Lannes corps aid. Davout was a hard-ass liked by few and not a charismatic favorite like Lannes. If Lannes got killed or wounded due to Bernadotte's dawdling, Nappy woulda legit shot his ass for negligence or at the very least strip Bernadotte's rank and boot him. If Bernadotte quickly supported Lannes at Auerstadt and helped score a major victory then maybe there wouldnt be a rift between Nappy/Bernadotte and he wouldnt have gone off to Sweden.

The “rift” between Nappy and Bernadotte had little to do with that specific battle or any other battle. Even if Nappy made some noises after Auerstedt, there were just noises because formally Bernadotte followed his order and Nappy could not make too much fuss without embarrassing himself (genius who completely misread the situation, issued a wrong order and blown out of proportion not too glorious Jena at expense of a true glory of Auerstedt; not very good for PR). To give credit where it is due, he found a good explanation, “Desiree would be unhappy...” .

The problem for Nappy was two-fold: 1st, family relations and 2nd he really needed him because Bernadotte was the only marshal with the administrative talents.

As for Bernadotte, with the exception of Massena (who was not a political or administrative animal) he was the only marshal who made a brilliant career before Bonaparte’s coup (ambassador to Vienna, minister of war) and did not feel himself excessively obliged to him or too awed to avoid criticizing him in public (as happened after the 1st day of Wagram).

 

[isabella]

The “rift” between Nappy and Bernadotte had little to do with that specific battle or any other battle. Even if Nappy made some noises after Auerstedt, there were just noises because formally Bernadotte followed his order and Nappy could not make too much fuss without embarrassing himself (genius who completely misread the situation, issued a wrong order and blown out of proportion not too glorious Jena at expense of a true glory of Auerstedt; not very good for PR). To give credit where it is due, he found a good explanation, “Desiree would be unhappy...” .

The problem for Nappy was two-fold: 1st, family relations and 2nd he really needed him because Bernadotte was the only marshal with the administrative talents.

As for Bernadotte, with the exception of Massena (who was not a political or administrative animal) he was the only marshal who made a brilliant career before Bonaparte’s coup (ambassador to Vienna, minister of war) and did not feel himself excessively obliged to him or too awed to avoid criticizing him in public (as happened after the 1st day of Wagram).

Like Murat was protected by being the husband of Caroline Bonaparte, Bernadotte was protected by being Joseph’s brother-in-law and likely allowed to be more critical as husband of Napoleon’s former fiancé Desirée.

 

[alexmilman]

Like Murat was protected by being the husband of Caroline Bonaparte, Bernadotte was protected by being Joseph’s brother-in-law and likely allowed to be more critical as husband of Napoleon’s former fiancé Desirée.

There were two more fundamental differences:

1st, Murat was nobody without Napoleon while Bernadotte made an impressive career before Nappy came to power.
2nd, Bernadotte was the only marshal with the proven administrative and diplomatic abilities and Nappy was quite short of the people who could be useful outside battlefield.

As for the open criticism, Nappy did not tolerate it and this is why, after Bernadotte openly criticized the butchery of the 1st day of Wagram, Nappy used a rather lame excuse for relieving him of command (but the Saxons remembered Bernadotte’s Leadership). He did the same when Bernadotte, after repelling the Brits, publicly criticized him for neglecting defense of the Belgian coast and ... ordered him to take command of the army of Catalonia and when Bernadotte refused (how many marshals would refuse an appointment?) ... made him a governor of Rome (at which time the Swedish proposal materialized). Taking into an account the much earlier conflicts, it is probably safe to say that these two did not like each other but for quite a while cooperation was beneficial for both sides. It should not be forgotten that on Napoleon’s service Bernadotte became a very rich man (unlike most marshals, he figured out that a primitive looting is not the most profitable activity) and, judging by the amount of noice about his personal finances that he made as a crown prince of Sweden, he was anything but a starry-eyed idealist.