What if the Imperial Family somehow manages from Ekaterinburg or are sprung from the prison by the Whites in a special raid? Would Nicky be able to unite the White forces and would he be able to get more international help? Even if he is able to would it change the course of the Russian Civil War? If the Whites win with Nicky still in the picture what type of government to they create? Sorry If I ask too much, just really interested in the Russian Monarchy.
WI: Imperial Family Escapes
- Thread starter Patton
- Start date
I agree that the Empress and Childern would flee, but don't you think Nicky would stay if not to led the Whites himself (which would end badly for them) or at least serve as a uniting figure?
They were invited to the UK by King George.
Unfortunately, George was kind of paranoid about the fact monarchies were dropping left and right at the time, so he pressured the government to withdraw the offer. Although, the government almost didnt, they only did so under heavy pressure from the King.
Easy POD right there.
Unfortunately, George was kind of paranoid about the fact monarchies were dropping left and right at the time, so he pressured the government to withdraw the offer. Although, the government almost didnt, they only did so under heavy pressure from the King.
Easy POD right there.
It is hard to see him as a competent military leader. I suspect monarchists were a distinct minority so I do not seem him as a effective political rallying point. I guess that if he went and got himself killed in battle his current reputation would be much better.
I seriously doubt that Nicholas II would align himself with the Whites nor be looked to by them as a unifying figure. Also, in general, by the summer of 1918 the monarchy was dead, and this would probably remain so even if Nicholas & family live.
Honestly Nicky the idiot wind up like the Kaisar an obscure refugee that no-one really wants to think about much. His survival certainly wont effect the course of the RCW much.
Oddly, the Soviets might benefit as the bad PR over the execution (instigated by the Ural Soviet not Moscow) wont exist and the Imperial f amity will be embarrassing reminders of past Romanov failures, not potential martyrs.
Oddly, the Soviets might benefit as the bad PR over the execution (instigated by the Ural Soviet not Moscow) wont exist and the Imperial f amity will be embarrassing reminders of past Romanov failures, not potential martyrs.
Would there? Even the leaders of the Whites weren't really all that enthused about the monarchy, they may of said nice things - and that seems to of been more in opposition to communism - but never did anything concrete to back them up. Their getting killed was probably the best thing that could happen for the White leaders as it removed the awkward problem of having to actually deal with them whilst also giving them a stick to beat the communists with. Assuming that the Whites managed to win the civil war I can't really see those men turning around and giving Nicholas II back his autocratic powers if and when they reinstated him, at best the Romanov's are going to be figureheads in a constitutional monarchy. And considering Nicholas and his relatives I'm not sure how well they would take the offer of a mainly ceremonial position after almost absolute power, he could easily get into a huff and flounce off to somewhere in Europe.
The white factions were on the whole as the previous post said exceptionally lukewarm about the monarchy and even pro-monarchists were unwilling to name some kind of royal figurehead for fear of alienating the numerous republican groups and sects fighting the bolsheviks.
The Romanov's were pretty much a spent force - with or without the murders and most of the family would have been very reluctant to rally round an exiled and quite frankly disgraced Nicholas.
Nicholas II had abdicated (whatever the legality of that).
Technically his brother Michael Alexandrovitch had become Emperor (or for those who dispute the abdication regent for his nephew Alexei).
Michael's manifesto had put the question of a monarchy off until a constitutional vote could be taken (it was of course forgotten when the Bolshevik's took control)
Michael left leaving until far too late and was on the point of departing for Finland - he was murdered before Nicholas II in June 1918
Many pro-monarchists preferred Grand Duke Nicholas (grandson of Nicholas I and wartime general) as Emperor and Autocrat - others supported the technical next in line Kyril Vladimirovich others Dmitri Pavlovich.
Depends which Romanov murders you want to remove on who has the best or strongest claim etc.
The family as a whole supported the right and claims of Kyril Vladimirovich (who by the 20s was the senior surviving heir male) with only Nicholas Nikolaevich and his brother objecting. The family would later split over the decision of Vladimir - Kyril's son - naming his daughter heir and insisting the other male dynasts marriages were invalid for the purpose of succession (a long-running and unpleasant battle that is still going on within the descendants of the Romanov survivors)
The murders in order:
Michael Alexandrovich (the defacto last Emperor) June 1918
The former Imperial Family - July 17 1918
Alapaevsk group - Sergei Mikhailovich, John/Ivan Constantinovich, Constantine Constantinovich, Igor Constantinovich - plus Grand Duchess Elizabeth (sister of the Empress Alexandra) and Prince Paley (morganatic son of Grand Duke Paul) - 18 July 1918.
Peter and Paul Fortress Group - 28 Jan 1919 - Grand Dukes Dimitri Constantinovich, Nicholas Mikhailovich, George Mikhailovich and Paul Alexandrovich.
The actual succession of the House of Holstein Gottorp Romanov as of the Fall of the Monarchy.
Group 1 - Descendants of Alexander III -
1) Alexei Nikolaevitch (discounting his father's abdication on his behalf)
2) Michael Alexandrovitch - Emperor according to Nicholas II's abdication murdered in June 1918)
Group 2 Descendants of Alexander II:
1) Kyril Vladimirovitch,
2) Vladimir Kyrillovitch (b1917)
3) Boris Vladimirovich
4) Andrei Vladimirovich
5) Paul Alexandrovitch (kd 1919)
6) Dmitri Pavlovich (Rasputin's killer and another oft named candidate during the civil war).
Descendants of Nicholas I
Group 3
1) Nicholas Constantinovich (d Jan 1918)
2) John/Ivan Constantinovich (murd July 1918)
3) Vsevolod Ivanovich
4) Gabriel Constantinovich
5) Constantine Constantinovich (murd july 1918)
6) Igor Constantinovich (murd july 1918)
7) George Constantinovich
8) Dmitri Constantinovich (Kd Jan 1919)
9) Nicholas Nikolaevich (war time general and oft named candidate during the civil war)
10) Peter Nikolaevich
11) Roman Petrovich
12) Nicholas Mikhailovich (murd Jan 1919)
13) George Mikhailovich (murd Jan 1919)
14) Alexander Mikhailovich
15) Andrei Alexandrovich
16) Feodor Alexandrovich
17) Nikita Alexandrovich
18) Dmitri Alexandrovich
19) Rostislav Alexandrovich
20) Vasili Alexandrovich
21) Sergei Mikhailovich (Murd July 1918)
The Romanov's were pretty much a spent force - with or without the murders and most of the family would have been very reluctant to rally round an exiled and quite frankly disgraced Nicholas.
Nicholas II had abdicated (whatever the legality of that).
Technically his brother Michael Alexandrovitch had become Emperor (or for those who dispute the abdication regent for his nephew Alexei).
Michael's manifesto had put the question of a monarchy off until a constitutional vote could be taken (it was of course forgotten when the Bolshevik's took control)
Michael left leaving until far too late and was on the point of departing for Finland - he was murdered before Nicholas II in June 1918
Many pro-monarchists preferred Grand Duke Nicholas (grandson of Nicholas I and wartime general) as Emperor and Autocrat - others supported the technical next in line Kyril Vladimirovich others Dmitri Pavlovich.
Depends which Romanov murders you want to remove on who has the best or strongest claim etc.
The family as a whole supported the right and claims of Kyril Vladimirovich (who by the 20s was the senior surviving heir male) with only Nicholas Nikolaevich and his brother objecting. The family would later split over the decision of Vladimir - Kyril's son - naming his daughter heir and insisting the other male dynasts marriages were invalid for the purpose of succession (a long-running and unpleasant battle that is still going on within the descendants of the Romanov survivors)
The murders in order:
Michael Alexandrovich (the defacto last Emperor) June 1918
The former Imperial Family - July 17 1918
Alapaevsk group - Sergei Mikhailovich, John/Ivan Constantinovich, Constantine Constantinovich, Igor Constantinovich - plus Grand Duchess Elizabeth (sister of the Empress Alexandra) and Prince Paley (morganatic son of Grand Duke Paul) - 18 July 1918.
Peter and Paul Fortress Group - 28 Jan 1919 - Grand Dukes Dimitri Constantinovich, Nicholas Mikhailovich, George Mikhailovich and Paul Alexandrovich.
The actual succession of the House of Holstein Gottorp Romanov as of the Fall of the Monarchy.
Group 1 - Descendants of Alexander III -
1) Alexei Nikolaevitch (discounting his father's abdication on his behalf)
2) Michael Alexandrovitch - Emperor according to Nicholas II's abdication murdered in June 1918)
Group 2 Descendants of Alexander II:
1) Kyril Vladimirovitch,
2) Vladimir Kyrillovitch (b1917)
3) Boris Vladimirovich
4) Andrei Vladimirovich
5) Paul Alexandrovitch (kd 1919)
6) Dmitri Pavlovich (Rasputin's killer and another oft named candidate during the civil war).
Descendants of Nicholas I
Group 3
1) Nicholas Constantinovich (d Jan 1918)
2) John/Ivan Constantinovich (murd July 1918)
3) Vsevolod Ivanovich
4) Gabriel Constantinovich
5) Constantine Constantinovich (murd july 1918)
6) Igor Constantinovich (murd july 1918)
7) George Constantinovich
8) Dmitri Constantinovich (Kd Jan 1919)
9) Nicholas Nikolaevich (war time general and oft named candidate during the civil war)
10) Peter Nikolaevich
11) Roman Petrovich
12) Nicholas Mikhailovich (murd Jan 1919)
13) George Mikhailovich (murd Jan 1919)
14) Alexander Mikhailovich
15) Andrei Alexandrovich
16) Feodor Alexandrovich
17) Nikita Alexandrovich
18) Dmitri Alexandrovich
19) Rostislav Alexandrovich
20) Vasili Alexandrovich
21) Sergei Mikhailovich (Murd July 1918)
There was such a movement OTL. with a clear & legitimate heir who was untainted by the failures of Nicky the idiot. With the Impreail Family (particularly the children) as handy martyrs.
Even amongst the emigres it struggled to gain support. As few of them wanted to go back to the old order. In Russia itself the Romnav's were an utter irrelevance. Even had Bolshevism fallen in the 1920's it's hard to see a Tsarist restoration. Frankly the dynasty was discredited, and once a ruling dynasty falls they rarely ever achieve power again...