Say the Hungarian revolution of 1848 succeeds - whether that is because Austria does not manage to turn the other peoples in Transleithania against the Hungarians, they do not manage to get Russian help or the Hungarians fight a better campaign/get more aid themselves. Where do things go from there? Will there be a clean break - all of Cisleithania stays with Austria and all of Transleithania with Hungary? Or does this lead to a cascade of national wars of liberation? What ramifications does it have on the Frankfurt parliament? And on Europe as a whole?
WI: Hungarian revolution succeeds
- Thread starter Chercha
- Start date
I could see the Austrians 'cocking this one up', so to speak, but then again, they could just as easily bring in the Russians to help them, as they did IOTL. Now, there was fairly strong sympathy towards the Hungarians on the part of the Russians; one story I read, in a book about the Russian Army under Nicholas I, mentions that Russian and Hungarian officers would have dinner parties, and the toasts would start out, "to Russia", "to Hungary", etc. As the officers became more drunk, the toasts would devolve into, "to the ruin of Austria!"
However, Nicholas I wasn't a big fan of liberal ideology/ideas (they had nearly led to his being overthrown in 1825, just after his coronation as Tsar no less!), and given the close proximity of Hungary to the Russian frontier, Nikky wouldn't tolerate it. Not too mention, Russia got a fair amount from helping the Austrians (control of parts of the Danube, greater influence in the Balkans), so I don't see why the Russians wouldn't intervene (although admittedly, I'm no expert on the 'Peoples' Spring' of 1848).
I could see the Austrians screwing up somehow, and if the Hungarians coordinate their efforts better, it will undoubtedly help their cause. But once Ivan gets involved, well, I don't really see the result being that much different from IOTL.
But that's just my 2 cents...
However, Nicholas I wasn't a big fan of liberal ideology/ideas (they had nearly led to his being overthrown in 1825, just after his coronation as Tsar no less!), and given the close proximity of Hungary to the Russian frontier, Nikky wouldn't tolerate it. Not too mention, Russia got a fair amount from helping the Austrians (control of parts of the Danube, greater influence in the Balkans), so I don't see why the Russians wouldn't intervene (although admittedly, I'm no expert on the 'Peoples' Spring' of 1848
). I could see the Austrians screwing up somehow, and if the Hungarians coordinate their efforts better, it will undoubtedly help their cause. But once Ivan gets involved, well, I don't really see the result being that much different from IOTL.
But that's just my 2 cents...
MarshalBraginsky
Banned
You need someone other than Nicholas I to be the Tsar of Russia by the time the Hungarian Revolution of 1848 arrives. Someone who might sympathize with the Hungarian rebels.
katchen
Banned
Nicholas I dies by 1847?
Because I could easily see Nicholas grabbing Hungary--and Slovakia and Galicia for Russia if he dosen't think he can or dosen't think he has to, put the Austrian Empire back together again. . It could even get Nicholas and Russia all the way to the Adriatic in Croatia and Slovenia--the beginning of pan-Slavism.
Such as Alexander II becoming Tsar early maybe?
Because I could easily see Nicholas grabbing Hungary--and Slovakia and Galicia for Russia if he dosen't think he can or dosen't think he has to, put the Austrian Empire back together again. . It could even get Nicholas and Russia all the way to the Adriatic in Croatia and Slovenia--the beginning of pan-Slavism.
The Austrians didn't manage to turn the other peoples in Transleithania against the Hungarians, the Hungarians managed to do that all by themselves by being raging nationalistic arseholes. If you want to avoid the Croatians, Romanians and pretty much every other national minority in the Kingdom of Hungary eventually ending up in opposition to them then you need to change the preceding behaviour by the Hungarian ruling classes.
However, Nicholas I wasn't a big fan of liberal ideology/ideas (they had nearly led to his being overthrown in 1825, just after his coronation as Tsar no less!), and given the close proximity of Hungary to the Russian frontier, Nikky wouldn't tolerate it. Not too mention, Russia got a fair amount from helping the Austrians (control of parts of the Danube, greater influence in the Balkans), so I don't see why the Russians wouldn't intervene (although admittedly, I'm no expert on the 'Peoples' Spring' of 1848
Letters of Nicholas I to brother Michael: "Hungarian men began to cut their masters. Could be good, but I'm afraid will spread to us."
I had an idea for a scenarion in this thread:
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=289751
Unfortunately, noone seemed interested. Anyways, this was my proposal for a quick Hungarian victory and an earlier Ausgleich, way before the Russian intervention:
So what if the Hungarian army decisively defeats Jelačić at either Schwechat or even earlier, not allowing him to retreat and join up with the rest of the Imperial forces.
Vienna is in open rebellion, could the arrival of the Hungarian army topple the Habsburgs for good?
At this early stage of the revolution there was no plan of outright secession, so perhaps we could see an earlier, and very different Austria-Hungary? Perhaps with a contitutional monarchy, with a Habsburg still on both thrones, but rather powerless?
Or would the Austrians fight on from Tirol and Prague? What if the revolution spreads to the rest of the empire? How do the other great powers react? IOTL Russia entered the conflict on the Austrian side, but with such rapid revolutionary success, could they react in time or would the Habsburgs try to negotiate in order to stay in power?
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=289751
Unfortunately, noone seemed interested. Anyways, this was my proposal for a quick Hungarian victory and an earlier Ausgleich, way before the Russian intervention:
So what if the Hungarian army decisively defeats Jelačić at either Schwechat or even earlier, not allowing him to retreat and join up with the rest of the Imperial forces.
Vienna is in open rebellion, could the arrival of the Hungarian army topple the Habsburgs for good?
At this early stage of the revolution there was no plan of outright secession, so perhaps we could see an earlier, and very different Austria-Hungary? Perhaps with a contitutional monarchy, with a Habsburg still on both thrones, but rather powerless?
Or would the Austrians fight on from Tirol and Prague? What if the revolution spreads to the rest of the empire? How do the other great powers react? IOTL Russia entered the conflict on the Austrian side, but with such rapid revolutionary success, could they react in time or would the Habsburgs try to negotiate in order to stay in power?