From what I have heard, Henry II wanted to divorce Eleanor after having kids with her but was not able to do so, what if he was able to make a divorce with Eleanor and remarries in 1180's, what would be its implications to his own children with Eleanor?
WI: Henry II of England divorces Eleanor of Aquitaine on 1180's
- Thread starter kasumigenx
- Start date
Considering that Henry's actually more closely related to Eleanor than Louis ever was,I think it's theoretically plausible to have the marriage annulled on grounds of consanguinity.Assuming the Pope is cooperative,he might also be able to disown all of his children with Eleanor as bastards.You can always have the pope declare the children to be legitimate on the other hand.It all depends on whether Henry is ready to accept the consequences and how cooperative the pope is.There's probably going to be a much bigger civil war.
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If he disinherits his sons with Eleanor it eliminates the cause of the Hundred Years War since they will only inherit Aquitaine.
It'll be more complicated than that actually.Henry's 'bastard' sons will dispute the verdict by arms or whatever means at their disposal,so that means civil war,especially if Henry gets children from his new wife.If Richard and co. lost,then their rule of Aquitaine would also be under threat.If they are bastards,then it would be illegal for them to inherit Aquitaine--the legitimate heir to Aquitaine would be their older half-sister instead,the daughter of Eleanor and Louis.
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Well....
... As Louis learned the hard way, divorcing Eleanor divorces about half the territory of metropolitan France. There's no reason to think that a second divorce / annulment on the same grounds (consanguinity) as the first would not include legitimation of the children and the restoration to Eleanor of her own lands, if only as a matter of stare decisis with the Curial canon lawyers; there is less than no reason to think Eleanor would take it quietly if it didn't. And to effect a dissolution of the marriage, Henry has to get the church onside ... or pronounce a merely secular dissolution which gets him excommunicated and probably hit with a bull of deposition. I mean, if you want to start the Henrician schism six Henries early, feel free, but.... The sons, possibly with John playing both sides against the middle, will side with Mummy, in all likelihood; and the barons can make a good deal of allegedly pious and chivalrous hay with it.
And despite Stalin's question centuries later, the papacy had its divisions (and corps, and armies) then, if only by proxy, through blessing Henry's enemies. Henry was already on thin ice since Becket's martyrdom. And - look, there's a reason for the C of E, and it's rather surprising the Scots didn't do the same early on and that the Irish remained RC: the papacy has a bad history with the British Isles. Alexander II in 1066; Innocent III in 1215, siding with John and denouncing Magna Carta; in Henry's own day and memory, Adrian IV's handing Ireland over to the English; John XXII's anti-Scots policy in the time of Edward and Robert the Bruce.... Alexander III was no friend to Henry, nor was Lucius III, and yet both supported the English over the Irish (I really cannot understand the Irish attachment to the papacy).
In any case, and contrary to a suggestion up-thread, the only way Henry's sons have a shot at inheriting Eleanor's lands, of which Henry had control only jure uxoris, is by taking up her cause, and doubly so in the face of a crooked divorce. So things get very ugly very early.
... As Louis learned the hard way, divorcing Eleanor divorces about half the territory of metropolitan France. There's no reason to think that a second divorce / annulment on the same grounds (consanguinity) as the first would not include legitimation of the children and the restoration to Eleanor of her own lands, if only as a matter of stare decisis with the Curial canon lawyers; there is less than no reason to think Eleanor would take it quietly if it didn't. And to effect a dissolution of the marriage, Henry has to get the church onside ... or pronounce a merely secular dissolution which gets him excommunicated and probably hit with a bull of deposition. I mean, if you want to start the Henrician schism six Henries early, feel free, but.... The sons, possibly with John playing both sides against the middle, will side with Mummy, in all likelihood; and the barons can make a good deal of allegedly pious and chivalrous hay with it.
And despite Stalin's question centuries later, the papacy had its divisions (and corps, and armies) then, if only by proxy, through blessing Henry's enemies. Henry was already on thin ice since Becket's martyrdom. And - look, there's a reason for the C of E, and it's rather surprising the Scots didn't do the same early on and that the Irish remained RC: the papacy has a bad history with the British Isles. Alexander II in 1066; Innocent III in 1215, siding with John and denouncing Magna Carta; in Henry's own day and memory, Adrian IV's handing Ireland over to the English; John XXII's anti-Scots policy in the time of Edward and Robert the Bruce.... Alexander III was no friend to Henry, nor was Lucius III, and yet both supported the English over the Irish (I really cannot understand the Irish attachment to the papacy).
In any case, and contrary to a suggestion up-thread, the only way Henry's sons have a shot at inheriting Eleanor's lands, of which Henry had control only jure uxoris, is by taking up her cause, and doubly so in the face of a crooked divorce. So things get very ugly very early.
Provided that Geoffrey has still married Constance, Geoffrey will still claim Brittainy in right of his wife, and he will have Richard and Philip's support. And in return support them.
What about instead of Eleanor being divorced by Henry II, he arranges an accident for Eleanor, what would happen?
Henry maybe can obtain an annulment of his wedding but his children by Eleanor will still declared legitimate: gifting Eleanor's land to Blois and Champagne wuold be pure folly... At the worst Eleanor's children will have all the continental possessions of the family with a son of Henry's second wedding as his heir in England