WI Goldwater had a moment...

John Fredrick Parker

Donor
From Tom Veil, in this thread:

Tom Veil said:
January 1964
It was a dark, cold night, and the Senate chambers were all but abandoned. The only light on was Senator Goldwater's, as he tirelessly finished the day's business and began drafting a speech on the Kennedy Civil Rights Act. Goldwater had favored civil rights bills in the past, but this one was just too much of an intrusion on states' rights for him to countenance, and it was time for him to finally speak up about it. An enormous clap of thunder filled the room, and he was temporarily plunged into darkness. When the light returned, he found standing before him ...
"Don't do it, Barry."
"Father?"
"I'd like to think I'd recognize myself."
The younger Goldwater's jaw dropped. "But how?"
"I don't understand the mechanics myself, but it's my understanding that Providence is giving me one chance to right a wrong. I'm proud of how the children turned out, so the first thing I thought of was the Civil Rights Act."
"Look, you know as well as I that my heart is with the Negroes, but this bill goes against Conservative principles. Equality, wrongly understood, leads to despotism."
"Equality, rightly understood, as our founding fathers understood it, leads to liberty and to emancipation. In your zeal to fight the despotism of the Federal government, you are just encouraging the despotism of racist state governments. There is no Negro exemption in the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness in the Declaration of Independence."
The Goldwaters sat across from each other in silence as the elder's words sunk in. The younger finally spoke: "Well, looks like I have my speech. If you don't mind me asking about baser concerns while I have you here, what about the upcoming Presidential election?"
The elder laughed. "You couldn't possibly lose any worse than I did. We would have lost even if Abraham Lincoln had come back and campaigned with us. Listen, my time here is up. Just trust your heart, do what's right, and you'll have no regrets. And give Peggy a kiss for me. You'll miss these days when you're older."
"Thanks."
"My pleasure."
Click to expand...

Now, my question -- how does this change young Goldwater and the nation? It's pretty clear he votes for the Civil Rights Act now, but does he drop out of the Presidential race? And if so, does that mean he has a better shot at the White House in 68? What effects of American politics at large does this conversion have?

(Also, I realize this uses something of an ASB, but I think since it's limited to one man's experience in one moment, it can pass...)
 
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Tom Veil

Joseph Solis in Australia said:
Still, Goldwater will lose because his libertarian-conservative stance is too fringe to win the election later in that year and also a sympathy votes due to JFK's assassination.
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Sympathy over the assassination didn't have nearly as much to do with the Democrats' victory as did the economy, which was rocketing along at a pace not seen since World War II. So long as LBJ acts anything like a reasonably sane person, he wins.

As for the Republican nomination: in OTL, Goldwater ended up being the only conservative to run for the nomination. He won by splitting the vote. The next two most conservative likely contenders were Henry Cabot Lodge and Richard Nixon. Nixon's really a moderate, and wouldn't have come out against the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Lodge I honestly don't know well enough to say.
 

tiggerfan68

Tom Veil said:
Sympathy over the assassination didn't have nearly as much to do with the Democrats' victory as did the economy, which was rocketing along at a pace not seen since World War II. So long as LBJ acts anything like a reasonably sane person, he wins.

As for the Republican nomination: in OTL, Goldwater ended up being the only conservative to run for the nomination. He won by splitting the vote. The next two most conservative likely contenders were Henry Cabot Lodge and Richard Nixon. Nixon's really a moderate, and wouldn't have come out against the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Lodge I honestly don't know well enough to say.
Click to expand...

Perhaps not as much sympathy as psychology.

Goldwater himself said the nation was simply not ready for 3 Presidents in one year.

Certainly the economy helped, but even with a slump Johnson was gonna win
 
Plumber

Plumber

Instead of starting a new thread, I was wondering on the political effects a Yes for CRA from Goldwater would have, particularly on the Southern conversion to the GOP. Would it come down to if Nixon becomes President later and does the Southern Strategy? Absent Nixon, could a President Rockefeller ensure that the South does not become Solid Republican South by 2010, but around as competitive as the Midwest 2010?
 

Derek Jackson

If Goldwater had voted for the Civil Rights Bill would there have been a Dixiecrat movement putting a name on the ballot and carrying most of the Southern states Goldwater managed in OTL.
 
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Wendell

Derek Jackson said:
If Goldwater had voted for the Civil Rights Bill would there have been a Dixiecrat movement putting a name on the ballot and carrying most of the Southern states Goldwater managed in OTL.
Click to expand...

Conversely, Johnson's smear campaign in the North and West may be rather less successful.
 
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