WI: Gibraltar falls in 1783

[GlobalHumanism]

In doing some reading about the island I came across descriptions of the Grand Siege of Gibralter, a joint attempt by Spain and France to take the territory from the British during the American War of Independance. Ultimately it failed, with the crescendo that was the Grand Assault being a complete disaster for the French and Spanish. But what if the opposite had happened? Say the island was captured successfully during the assault forcing the UK out of the straits permenantly.

What effect would this have going forward?

 

[alexmilman]

In doing some reading about the island I came across descriptions of the Grand Siege of Gibralter, a joint attempt by Spain and France to take the territory from the British during the American War of Independance. Ultimately it failed, with the crescendo that was the Grand Assault being a complete disaster for the French and Spanish.

Yes, this was a good illustration of a seemingly obvious fact that the attempts to break a stone wall with a bare head tend to be counterproductive. The goal could be achieved by getting to it from the undefended back (scaling that cliff on the picture from the left instead of trying to break heavily fortified "main entrance".

But what if the opposite had happened? Say the island was captured successfully during the assault forcing the UK out of the straits permenantly.

What effect would this have going forward?

AFAIK, Gibraltar is not an island but, anyway, its permanent loss would leave the Brits without a very convenient naval base leaving them with Menorca (which they held, with interruptions, between 1708 and 1782 and then again between 1798 and 1802). I'm not sure if at these and later time Spain was able to prevent the British access to the Med even possessing Gibraltar.

 

[funnyhat]

Grand Assault

Interesting - apparently the Spanish tried to exchange Puerto Rico for Gibraltar during peace negotiations? I had not known that before.

 

[Philip]

If I lived in Tangier at the time, i might consider learning English. Seems like there will be opportunities to use it soon.

 

[Archduke]

Yes, this was a good illustration of a seemingly obvious fact that the attempts to break a stone wall with a bare head tend to be counterproductive. The goal could be achieved by getting to it from the undefended back (scaling that cliff on the picture from the left instead of trying to break heavily fortified "main entrance".



AFAIK, Gibraltar is not an island but, anyway, its permanent loss would leave the Brits without a very convenient naval base leaving them with Menorca (which they held, with interruptions, between 1708 and 1782 and then again between 1798 and 1802). I'm not sure if at these and later time Spain was able to prevent the British access to the Med even possessing Gibraltar.

Scaling the cliff would not have been easier. Gibraltar can only fall two ways. One is the Rock is starved out due to a naval and land blockade. The other is to take it with an assault. If you can attack before the fortress is reinforced then that is good, otherwise, you will probably have a launch loss of life.

Gibraltar was not a very good naval base. Menorca was the main naval base of the British in the Mediterranean, Gibraltar was the secondary base. Menorca is a full island rather than a tiny Rock, Menorca simply gets overlooked because of the enormous prestige attached to Gibraltar and the fact that Menorca returned to Spain whereas Gibraltar has not. Anyways, the British would not be left with Menorca. Menorca fell in 1781 to a Franco-Spanish invasion and OTL was given to Spain in the Treaty of Versailles. If Gibraltar falls it too will be ceded to Spain leaving the British with no possessions in the Mediterranean.

If I lived in Tangier at the time, i might consider learning English. Seems like there will be opportunities to use it soon.

It's not likely for the British to take Tangier in this time period. For one the previous British experience with Tangier was not pleasant. The city was constantly attacked and even besieged and did not provide many benefits to warrant its cost. More likely if the British are able to reestablish a Mediterranean naval presence they will look to a small European island like Malta or Menorca.

 

[alexmilman]

Scaling the cliff would not have been easier.

AFAIK, it was done once but the force sent to do this was too small and, while reaching the Charles V Wall (which, IIRC, did not have any artillery), they were destroyed by the British counterattack.

As experience of a not too remote future demonstrated, the much greater forces could successfully get through the much higher mountains (Alps) and even carry artillery with them.

Gibraltar can only fall two ways. One is the Rock is starved out due to a naval and land blockade. The other is to take it with an assault. If you can attack before the fortress is reinforced then that is good, otherwise, you will probably have a launch loss of life.

Both had been tried during the Great Siege and failed. A prolonged naval blockade was hard to maintain, especially if opponent has a strong navy. A successful assault against the fortifications as powerful as those of Gibraltar requires extremely powerful siege artillery (what was available during the Great Siege was clearly not enough) capable of causing fundamental damage to the fortifications system. Taking into an account that this system was "multi-layered" and that part of it was on the heights, task was extremely difficult for the XVIII century artillery.

 

[funnyhat]

Gibraltar was not a very good naval base. Menorca was the main naval base of the British in the Mediterranean, Gibraltar was the secondary base. Menorca is a full island rather than a tiny Rock, Menorca simply gets overlooked because of the enormous prestige attached to Gibraltar and the fact that Menorca returned to Spain whereas Gibraltar has not. Anyways, the British would not be left with Menorca. Menorca fell in 1781 to a Franco-Spanish invasion and OTL was given to Spain in the Treaty of Versailles. If Gibraltar falls it too will be ceded to Spain leaving the British with no possessions in the Mediterranean.

What made it so difficult for the British to defend Menorca? They lost it twice (1756 and 1782) despite their naval dominance.

 

[Napoleonrules]

In doing some reading about the island I came across descriptions of the Grand Siege of Gibralter, a joint attempt by Spain and France to take the territory from the British during the American War of Independance. Ultimately it failed, with the crescendo that was the Grand Assault being a complete disaster for the French and Spanish. But what if the opposite had happened? Say the island was captured successfully during the assault forcing the UK out of the straits permenantly.

What effect would this have going forward?

In your research did you perhaps learn that it is not an island?

 

[Faeelin]

What made it so difficult for the British to defend Menorca? They lost it twice (1756 and 1782) despite their naval dominance.

One difference may be that Minorca was not on a giant rock.

 

[funnyhat]

One difference may be that Minorca was not on a giant rock.

Yes, but if it was Britain's main Mediterranean naval base, I'm surprised it could be captured twice (and relatively quickly at that).