WI: Emperor of Japan Converts to Christianity?

[Tripledot]

Okay, I was thinking about this because of the ASB thread that supposes a majority Christian Japan after WWII. What if the Japanese Emperor converted to Christianity? I have three main scenarios:

1. During the Sengoku Jidai, the emperor converts to Catholicism. Perhaps a Catholic daimyo forces him, or perhaps he does it voluntarily. What will happen? Will he end up deposed, will there be an anti-Emperor who heads the Shinto faith?
2. During the Meiji Restoration, Emperor Meiji converts to Christianity (either Catholicism or Protestantism) as a means to Westernize the country, rather than sponsor state Shinto. Does this cause significant unrest, and is this unrest insurmountable?
3. Following World War II, Hirohito converts to Christianity (probably some kind of evangelical form of Presbyterianism or Methodism) after renouncing his divine status. What will become of the practitioners of Shinto without their head of religion? What proportion of the Japanese population will convert along with him?

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Hmmm.... I'm the Divine Emperor, descended from the Sun Goddess. And I'm going to convert to a monotheism that doesn't recognize either?
Not impossible, I suppose, but it certainly massively undercuts the theoretical (and theological) underpinnings of the Emperor's position.

My guess would be that you'd need much of Japan to convert first, so the Emperor was just following. If there is not already a large and growing group of Christians, then he's likely deposed and a relative takes the throne.

 

[FellowNerd]

Hmmm.... I'm the Divine Emperor, descended from the Sun Goddess. And I'm going to convert to a monotheism that doesn't recognize either?
Not impossible, I suppose, but it certainly massively undercuts the theoretical (and theological) underpinnings of the Emperor's position.

My guess would be that you'd need much of Japan to convert first, so the Emperor was just following. If there is not already a large and growing group of Christians, then he's likely deposed and a relative takes the throne.

Unless the conversion is lead by the nobility (maybe the masses) this is what's going to happen. Also the Emperor in the Japanese government doesn't translate well to the Western context, at least until the Meiji period. Before that I've heard the Emperor best described as more of a chief priest of the Shinto religion, where he 'rules' all of japan much like the pope has the 'loyality' of all Catholics

 

[BBadolato]

I would say no, things by the Sengoku Jidai period were so chaotic that would invite more trouble in the capital. At best the emperor would be forced to step down, at worst another Daimyo plays kingmaker depending on when. You would either need someone who didn't care about religion like Oda Nobunaga or a catholic daimyo, where largely in Western Japan and not all that strong baring a theoretical Ouchi clan conversion in western Honshu, or more expansionist Otomo in Kyushu.

 

[spendabuck]

Could Christianity be Nipponized (?) to be compatible with the idea of a Divine Emperor? For example, Amaterasu becomes an archangel, therefore allowing the emperors to claim some divine ancestry (not at the level of being descended from a god, but better than nothing).

 

[Remitonov]

Could Christianity be Nipponized (?) to be compatible with the idea of a Divine Emperor? For example, Amaterasu becomes an archangel, therefore allowing the emperors to claim some divine ancestry (not at the level of being descended from a god, but better than nothing).

In the vein of the 'divine right of kings' as in Europe, not impossible. But you can't claim to be God, just someone appointed by God to lead. So unless most of Japan is Catholic (or less likely, Protestant), there's no way the emperor would convert without him and the shogun controlling him deposed.

 

[Monter]

It has to be Catholicism/Protestantism? If not, have the Church of the East flourish more and get a foothold in Japan, have a large share of the Japanese population convert and add some syncretism to appeal more Japanese public and to accommodate the idea of the Emperor.

 

[Arkenfolm]

Hmmm.... I'm the Divine Emperor, descended from the Sun Goddess. And I'm going to convert to a monotheism that doesn't recognize either?
Not impossible, I suppose, but it certainly massively undercuts the theoretical (and theological) underpinnings of the Emperor's position.

My guess would be that you'd need much of Japan to convert first, so the Emperor was just following. If there is not already a large and growing group of Christians, then he's likely deposed and a relative takes the throne.

Something like this. A lot of African rulers voluntarily gave up their claims to divinity/divine descent as well as the important role they played in the folk religion of their nations to convert to Islam.

 

[scholar]

Hmmm.... I'm the Divine Emperor, descended from the Sun Goddess. And I'm going to convert to a monotheism that doesn't recognize either?
Not impossible, I suppose, but it certainly massively undercuts the theoretical (and theological) underpinnings of the Emperor's position.

A possible route would be turning Amaterasu into an older Queen who was made into a Goddess. That's what the Germans and the Nordics did with Odin and the rest when they converted to Christianity.

 

[Tripledot]

What about the two other scenarios I mentioned? Would Meiji adopting a Western religion be result in significant turmoil? Would this be enough to dethrone Meiji? How could this affect Japanese imperial ambitions, as well as relations with Western powers? As for the Hirohito example, I'm more interested in what happens when an already powerless (and not divine) emperor converts, and what social impact there might be as a result. I think in that case, the emperors would still claim descent from Amaterasu, but as some mythical founding figure, as scholar said.

 

[Avrorrange]

What about the two other scenarios I mentioned? Would Meiji adopting a Western religion be result in significant turmoil? Would this be enough to dethrone Meiji? How could this affect Japanese imperial ambitions, as well as relations with Western powers? As for the Hirohito example, I'm more interested in what happens when an already powerless (and not divine) emperor converts, and what social impact there might be as a result. I think in that case, the emperors would still claim descent from Amaterasu, but as some mythical founding figure, as scholar said.

I was under the impression that the emperor or rather the anti-Shogunists triumphed over the Shogun resting a large part on the legitimacy of the emperor as a living god.I don't see how the emperor would undermine his own legitimacy especially since the Meiji reforms already provoked large opposition from his own supporters.

As for Hirohito adopting Christianity,not sure why he would do that.Secularism seems to be more in line with growing trends.

 

[Remitonov]

What about the two other scenarios I mentioned? Would Meiji adopting a Western religion be result in significant turmoil? Would this be enough to dethrone Meiji?

Yes and yes.

You have to remember, the tagline used by the imperial forces against the Shogunate during the Boshin War was 'Sonno Joi' - 'expel the barbarians'. Accepting the barbarian religion is a surefire way to kill the Meiji restoration and lend considerable support to any revolt that intends to make the expulsions happen, or give the Shogunate a free hand to quell the imperialist uprising. Even if the anti-Christian forces do lose, they can cause a severe amount of damage and lead a very long-lasting insurgency.

How could this affect Japanese imperial ambitions, as well as relations with Western powers?

It's not really going to do a whole lot of good. Sure the West would be happier knowing that they've brought the light of God to the Far East, but that won't do much good as long as they see the Japanese as 'just one step below us, the missionaries.'

As for the Hirohito example, I'm more interested in what happens when an already powerless (and not divine) emperor converts, and what social impact there might be as a result.

What darthfanta said. It's better to support secularism than to convert at a time like that. Conversion would risk turning the entire ultranationalist rhetoric in line with this guy:

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Yukio Mishima's call for Hirohito's abdication for a 'better' emperor would have far more weight now that the emperor had actively repudiated his divinity by accepting a foreign god.

 

[Oceano]

Easy: The Emperor is a descendant of Jesus Christ through the Merogivians!
Close enough.

 

[RogueTraderEnthusiast]

I'd expect that if the Sengoku Jidai goes differently, such that the Emperor offers to shelter Christians (perhaps genuine humanitarianism, or cynical), but has them operate in a similar manner to the Ikko Ikki or other Buddhist Monks, become militant clerics. An Emperor could consider converting (perhaps after having a vision, or bribing someone else to have one), if the archangel idea was the case - and used the Christian Monks as his own personal army.

You'd have a lot of unrest I expect, but if handled you could have the Emperor, both Secular and Religious Ruler of Japan, but Christian. I won't lie, the idea of the Patriarchate of Kyoto is enticing.

 

[James XI]

I do agree it's a bit counter-productive to have the emperor undermine his own mandate, but religion and reason have often been passing strangers to one another over history.

 

[ZodiacBeast]

I doubt that the emperor would convert to Christianity.

Somehow I can see Shinto absorbing major Christian beings (Michael, Gabriel, Lucifer) as spirits/deities/I forgot the term, maybe even versions of Satan and God themselves, as being more likely.

Although I do like the reverse - Christian Amaterasu, Thor and Anubis archangels would be pretty sweet.

 

[RogueTraderEnthusiast]

I doubt that the emperor would convert to Christianity.

Somehow I can see Shinto absorbing major Christian beings (Michael, Gabriel, Lucifer) as spirits/deities/I forgot the term, maybe even versions of Satan and God themselves, as being more likely.

Although I do like the reverse - Christian Amaterasu, Thor and Anubis archangels would be pretty sweet.

That would be an epic theology. I'm half tempted to spin out a thread for that idea. Hyper-Adoptive Christianity. Ares, Thor, Gabriel, Amaterasu, Ahura Mazda, Seth, Epona? That would be an epic angelic heirarchy. The epics of Christianity would be ... legitimately epic. (I really want an Ares, Thor and Seth adventure fiction now)

 

[ZodiacBeast]

That would be an epic theology. I'm half tempted to spin out a thread for that idea. Hyper-Adoptive Christianity. Ares, Thor, Gabriel, Amaterasu, Ahura Mazda, Seth, Epona? That would be an epic angelic heirarchy. The epics of Christianity would be ... legitimately epic. (I really want an Ares, Thor and Seth adventure fiction now)

That would be cool. I have my own fictional!Religion that would replace Islam.

On the subject of the Japanese emperor, the current constitution doesn't allow him to give up\pass on his throne. Only way is to die.

 

[RogueTraderEnthusiast]

That would be cool. I have my own fictional!Religion that would replace Islam.

On the subject of the Japanese emperor, the current constitution doesn't allow him to give up\pass on his throne. Only way is to die.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ito-says-it-may-be-difficult-for-him-to-car1/

Well, someone else resigned in 1817. So that might only be because of the current constitution.

 

[Avrorrange]

That would be an epic theology. I'm half tempted to spin out a thread for that idea. Hyper-Adoptive Christianity. Ares, Thor, Gabriel, Amaterasu, Ahura Mazda, Seth, Epona? That would be an epic angelic heirarchy. The epics of Christianity would be ... legitimately epic. (I really want an Ares, Thor and Seth adventure fiction now)

To be honest,that's what Christianity originally did IOTL.A lot of saints used to be fictional beings based on pagan gods.

Here is a list of some of them.