Admiral Halsey
Banned
Seeing as Edward was head of the Church of England, why couldn't he simply alter Church doctrine to remove the prohibitions on divorce?
Isn't that really a figurehead role though?
WI: Edward VIII refuses to abdicate and still marries Wallis?
- Thread starter Admiral Halsey
- Start date
Isn't that really a figurehead role though?
Agreed. There is no way they would behead Edward over a marriage. Remove him from the throne or cut his funds, quite probably. but not behead him. 1920s GB wasn't Revolutionary France!
For my TL Churchill wouldn't end up in charge, Lloyd-George would be the natural choice, Churchill was still something of a voice in the wilderness at the time. He would be in cabinet though. Mosley would be in cabinet as well (this is based on a Mosley has already won seats and looks more moderate) anyway I thought of this broad Tory, Liberal, Unionist, Socred, rainbow coalition as being called the Imperial Government in opposition to the former National Government at Churchill's suggestion.
Seeing as Edward was head of the Church of England, why couldn't he simply alter Church doctrine to remove the prohibitions on divorce?
He is Supreme Governor. Jesus is the head, and Jesus was very clear that divorce was not allowed. The Church hierarchy was smart enough back then to realize that and so would not allow the king to unilaterally change the laws there. Keep in mind that contrary to popular belief Henry VIII was never divorced. He annulled two marriages and in each case he had valid reason to do so.
Admiral Halsey
Banned
Seems like something he'd do. Think they'd call themselves "The King's Party"?
Seeing as Edward was head of the Church of England, why couldn't he simply alter Church doctrine to remove the prohibitions on divorce?
Quibble: Strictly speaking, the monarch is *not* the "head" of the Church of England but rather its "Supreme Governor." "Elizabeth I ascended to the throne in 1558 and the next year Parliament passed the Act of Supremacy 1559 that restored the original act.[4] To placate critics, the Oath of Supremacy which nobles were required to swear, gave the monarch's title as Supreme Governor rather than Supreme Head of the church. This wording avoided the charge that the monarchy was claiming divinity or usurping Christ, whom the Bible explicitly identifies as Head of the Church.[5]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Governor_of_the_Church_of_England
My understanding of the situation was that the general public (and many MP's) were not really aware of any crisis happening and that the abdication was somewhat of a surprise.
If we end up with the government resigning over this and a snap election, might it not simply degenerate into a series of minority/coalition governments-all of them short lived, with frequent enough elections that the public just gets tired of the whole thing and votes for whichever party finally says, "we have more important things to deal with for now"? Of course, some provocative move by Hitler would be about all I could think of that everybody would agree on as "something more important"-but 1936 seems rather early for that.
A few years of this could have some major knock-on effects by the time 1938-1939's military emergencies start to come about.
If we end up with the government resigning over this and a snap election, might it not simply degenerate into a series of minority/coalition governments-all of them short lived, with frequent enough elections that the public just gets tired of the whole thing and votes for whichever party finally says, "we have more important things to deal with for now"? Of course, some provocative move by Hitler would be about all I could think of that everybody would agree on as "something more important"-but 1936 seems rather early for that.
A few years of this could have some major knock-on effects by the time 1938-1939's military emergencies start to come about.
I think Bessie Wallis could adopt the name Elisabeth since Bessie is a short name for Elisabeth.
Sequence of events:
- Edward announces his intention to marry Wallis against the advice of his ministers, or actually does it
- Baldwin resigns
- Attlee and Sinclair both decline to attempt to form a government
Now it doesn't matter who you get to try to cobble together a Royalist government: Lloyd George or Churchill or Mosley (really?), it'll go down to a no confidence vote before you can say 'constitutional crisis': Labour's 154 MPs will virtually all vote against it, which means that Baldwin only has to persuade 154 of the 400-odd National members to go with him into Opposition to bring down the government.
Now, constitutionally, the Royalists could go to the country, and what happens then is anybody's guess. I would suggest a National-Labour pact (ie, defend existing seats from the Royalists and stand against whatever MPs L.-G. or Churchill has peeled off) would spring into existence to defend the constitutional settlement from the King. Against that, I don't see the Royalists managing to take a majority in such circumstances: they'd be lucky to hold their seats at all.
So the result of two months of crisis? Baldwin is restored to government and demands the King's abdication. The King is now out of any other options and has ridden the constitution into the dirt. He abdicates, and the future of the monarchy is questioned.
I don't see this actually happening. Most likely the King abdicates after Baldwin's resignation, realising the extent to which he's in trouble.
- Edward announces his intention to marry Wallis against the advice of his ministers, or actually does it
- Baldwin resigns
- Attlee and Sinclair both decline to attempt to form a government
Now it doesn't matter who you get to try to cobble together a Royalist government: Lloyd George or Churchill or Mosley (really?), it'll go down to a no confidence vote before you can say 'constitutional crisis': Labour's 154 MPs will virtually all vote against it, which means that Baldwin only has to persuade 154 of the 400-odd National members to go with him into Opposition to bring down the government.
Now, constitutionally, the Royalists could go to the country, and what happens then is anybody's guess. I would suggest a National-Labour pact (ie, defend existing seats from the Royalists and stand against whatever MPs L.-G. or Churchill has peeled off) would spring into existence to defend the constitutional settlement from the King. Against that, I don't see the Royalists managing to take a majority in such circumstances: they'd be lucky to hold their seats at all.
So the result of two months of crisis? Baldwin is restored to government and demands the King's abdication. The King is now out of any other options and has ridden the constitution into the dirt. He abdicates, and the future of the monarchy is questioned.
I don't see this actually happening. Most likely the King abdicates after Baldwin's resignation, realising the extent to which he's in trouble.
Seems people are only considering Britain....
The British government in a state of panic in 1936 decided to get the views of the Prime Ministers of Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Ireland and South Africa.
The Prime Ministers of Canada, Australia and South Africa refused to allow Wallis Simpson to become Queen or to acknowledge a morganatic marriage. The New Zealand Prime Minister was prepared to consider a morganatic marriage.
The ramifications of Edward marrying Wallis were potentially global. Had Edward VIII chosen to ignore the Empire’s opinions, even if he was able to get it past the UK politicians and people, it could have still caused serious damage to the monarchy’s position in the Dominions. As we in fact know Ireland took the abdication as an opportunity to progress the movement towards an eventual Republic!
The British government in a state of panic in 1936 decided to get the views of the Prime Ministers of Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Ireland and South Africa.
The Prime Ministers of Canada, Australia and South Africa refused to allow Wallis Simpson to become Queen or to acknowledge a morganatic marriage. The New Zealand Prime Minister was prepared to consider a morganatic marriage.
The ramifications of Edward marrying Wallis were potentially global. Had Edward VIII chosen to ignore the Empire’s opinions, even if he was able to get it past the UK politicians and people, it could have still caused serious damage to the monarchy’s position in the Dominions. As we in fact know Ireland took the abdication as an opportunity to progress the movement towards an eventual Republic!
No, why would they want dis-establishment? All that would do is remove half their reasoning for demanding an abdication.