WI Duchamp Doesn't Emigrate to US

[John Fredrick Parker]

What if, in 1915, Marcel Duchamp did not emigrate to NYC? Instead he either stays in France, flees to Switzerland, or anywhere in Europe. In any case, would I be right in saying this means no New York Dada scene? How would this affect the Dadist movement and the plastic arts overall?

 

[The Piano]

Eh, even if Duchamp stays in Europe that doesn't mean that Picabia can't go to the US and hang out with Man Ray. Not to mention other European artists or American artists who had been in Europe for a time, like Beatrice Wood. I don't know how much it would have meant for the New York Dada scene (it's my understanding that it was less organised) specifically. However, for Dadaism in general and Duchamp's work in particular, the creation of his readymades would have been affected. I think he wouldn't have created them at all but maybe he could have, but differently or at a different time.

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

Dang, I had forgotten about Picabia. Ok, full disclosure, I'm seeing this as part of a larger TL...

 

[The Piano]

If you're not trying to do away with New York Dada entirely but change the way it looks, what about exploring some of the more underrated artists? Beatrice Wood if I recall correctly was in Europe for some time. You also have Baroness Elsa... (I can't recall the rest of her name right now, I'm a bit sleep deprived so I'm drawing a blank here). These are just some of the few you can think of but there were certainly others in addition to Duchamp and Picabia who could have played a similar role of introducing Dada to New York by going back and forth over the Atlantic. I believe that without Duchamp and Picabia it would have looked very different, although since it only caught on became other artists in New York got into it, if they were still convinced by Dada in some way it could happen.

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

I believe that without Duchamp and Picabia it would have looked very different, although since it only caught on became other artists in New York got into it, if they were still convinced by Dada in some way it could happen.

From what I've picked up, I think it's quite possible the big American names of the NY Dada scene -- Man Ray in particular comes to mind -- might have lived in obscurity had it not been for more established European artists serving as to anchor the community.

 

[The Piano]

From what I've picked up, I think it's quite possible the big American names of the NY Dada scene -- Man Ray in particular comes to mind -- might have lived in obscurity had it not been for more established European artists serving as to anchor the community.

What I mean is, when the European artists went to America, American artists joined Dada as well. If they hadn't, you wouldn't have had a New York Dada but rather a self-contained transplant of the European Dada.

If you have American artists travelling to Europe and being in touch with European artistic circles, they could still pick up an interest in Dada and share it with their colleagues and friends back home. If you can make them get interested in Dada once it got introduced to them, as it happened in OTL, then it's possible that a NY Dada scene would still develop.

As to whether they would have lived in obscurity or had more than a passing interesting, it's hard to say. I think that Duchamp and Picabia's presence as prominent figures of European Dada must have contributed, of course, since they already had solid ties to the Dada scene in Europe. However, if you had any American artists who went to Europe, became at least somewhat important in the Dada circles, and then after going to America still retained their connections to their European counterparts, maybe the work of American Dadaists could still end up being well-known in Europe.

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

What I mean is, when the European artists went to America, American artists joined Dada as well. If they hadn't, you wouldn't have had a New York Dada but rather a self-contained transplant of the European Dada.

If you have American artists travelling to Europe and being in touch with European artistic circles, they could still pick up an interest in Dada and share it with their colleagues and friends back home. If you can make them get interested in Dada once it got introduced to them, as it happened in OTL, then it's possible that a NY Dada scene would still develop.

Possibly; but if Americans are traveling to Europe to discover the movement, I still think it's more likely that those who take an interest in it will stay on the continent rather than try to anchor something so groundbreaking to the US.

If that happens, then the major centers of what OTL was called "Dada" would be in Zurich and Germany, right? If so, I think it's possible that they would be considered different artistic movements at the time; one, "Anti-Art", would refer to movements in Zurich and which OTL spread to Paris; the other "German Expressionism"; and De Stijl would be considered separate as well.