WI Cuba and Florida exchange

In the 1763 Peace of Paris that ended the Seven Years War, the British settled for taking Florida from their defeated Spanish foes, rather than their preferred option of Cuba.

What would be the consequences for the history of Britain, Spain, the future nations of the United States and Mexico, as well as the territories of Florida and Cuba themselves, had the Floridians remained Spanish and the Cubans become British subjects?
 

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Would British Cuba become a significant naval base for the British during the American War of Independence?
 
Would 13 years be sufficient time for the largely Catholic Spanish planter class in Cuba to feel fraternity with the English-speaking rebels to their north? Given Florida's lack of interest in the rebellion historically, I wonder if there really would be Cuban interest.

My poorly informed imagination speculated that immigration from the Southern US states may have eventually led to a Texas-like stand-off, which the United States might need to resolve. Certainly before the US Civil War but well after independence.
 
Having the Spanish Empire at their door might convince Georgia and maybe South Carolina to stay loyal, common people might refuse to fight against the British if they are haunted by the specter of the Spanish
 
Not to take away from the basic premise of the OP, but was Cuba the preferred prize? Hind sight says Florida can be taken at a future date, but there's no way of knowing that at the time. the wise move was to take florida and cut off any Spanish threat on the continent. that was the right move at the time.

ATL, the English are going to experience a rebellion. perhaps that will serve them well in the american revolution, as they might gain a clue as to how to deal with contentious colonies.

overall, the Brits only controlled the main port, but not much more. I think they'd have a difficult time taking control of the entire island. they knew it, and gladly surrendered the island for a easy gain on the continent.

but, if they did things differently, you'll see a rebellion in Cuba (or at least a difficult occupation). the American revolution goes on as OTL, and Galvez retakes Cuba instead of Florida. I don't think having a Spanish Florida really affects much. no one was afraid of Spain at that point.
 
Not to take away from the basic premise of the OP, but was Cuba the preferred prize? Hind sight says Florida can be taken at a future date, but there's no way of knowing that at the time. the wise move was to take florida and cut off any Spanish threat on the continent. that was the right move at the time.

ATL, the English are going to experience a rebellion. perhaps that will serve them well in the american revolution, as they might gain a clue as to how to deal with contentious colonies.

overall, the Brits only controlled the main port, but not much more. I think they'd have a difficult time taking control of the entire island. they knew it, and gladly surrendered the island for a easy gain on the continent.

but, if they did things differently, you'll see a rebellion in Cuba (or at least a difficult occupation). the American revolution goes on as OTL, and Galvez retakes Cuba instead of Florida. I don't think having a Spanish Florida really affects much. no one was afraid of Spain at that point.
Could you have Spain be more involved, and earlier, in the US Revolutionary War with the aim of regaining Cuba? In OTL as part of peace that is how the Spanish got Florida back, not that it helped much, Florida would be overrun by Jackson soon enough. Georgia's fear of Spain as a future enemy may be allayed if Spain agrees to sell to the new US East Florida, but would the USA accept it, either under the Continental Congress or the Articles of Confederation? Georgia and the two Carolinas might agree, and depending on when this is perhaps Hamilton has the pull to wrangle northern support. Does this change history much? I doubt it, Florida comes into territory 40 years early, and the Louisiana Purchase in 1803 isolates and surrounds West Florida causing OTL rebellion there to be successful. A curious and very unlikely, but not ASB, consequence could be that with cheap Florida land the Yazoo land speculation corruption doesnt happen/get out of hand bankrupting Georgia; Georgia doesnt sell their trans-Appalachian land to the Federal govt and Georgia is a big state. There are two less slave states, but a more standard operating railroad gauge in the south based on Georgia's decisions. Or does Georgia give up both states later on in exchange to balance an earlier Maine and something else, and if so this sets up that Missouri isnt balancing Maine and we could have a Bloody Missouri instead of Kansas and Missouri might be a free state, or Kansas joins early as free to balance Missouri.
 
As it was stated before, Britain only conquered the area of Havana, no further. They would have had trouble governing so many Spaniards.

If somehow that did happen, I suspect Cuba would be very different as Britain's control of the slave trade would probably make great changes in short order. Spain never fully utilized the trade anywhere in their empire, not out of a moral code but bureaucratic incompetence. Britain would no doubt bring in far more slaves.

In OTL, most slaves in Cuba, Puerto Rico and Brazil arrived in the 19th century, after most of the other nations had abolished the trade.

Note that the British planter class in the West Indies, which were well represented in Parliament, would not necessarily welcomed a new competitor to the British sugar market either. Without question, a British (or French or Dutch or Portuguese) Cuba would be economically developed much better than in OTL.

I'm not sure it would have a whole lot of difference in the American Revolutionary War if Britain controlled Cuba. Smuggling from the Dutch West Indies would have been harder. Early on, this was vital to America getting powder.
 
I don't think this changes much regarding borders in mainland North America, the Spanish reacquired Florida OTL and it was eventually taken anyway. Florida itself might have a slightly different history, as the Spanish took a large number of Floridian natives and the paltry number of settlers to Cuba after the war OTL. Here there would be a slightly larger (but again, not by very much) "local" population, but I doubt that would deter American interests, as the Mexican Cession had a reasonable number of natives and Mexican settlers. I would imagine history plays out fairly similar here, with the USA capturing Florida while assisting in Mexico's independence war or finding a similar rationale around the early 19th century. The only way I see Spain retaining Florida is if it goes with an "Imperial Federation" idea making the Spanish New World too formidable an opponent, which I don't believe was particularly forthcoming.

However, I think British Cuba itself is more interesting to speculate about. During the ARW (I doubt British Cuba stops it), things may get interesting. The British don't have an excellent record regarding colonies with an established non-Anglo population, but were fairly pragmatic with measures like the Quebec Act, so something similar could happen here, and should obviate much interest in joining the Americans, since the Quebecois proved content enough with British Rule in OTL's war. However, the Quebec Act was historically passed by a fairly narrow margin and with Cuba there would be an undeniable racial component, which I doubt would help matters. A resentful Cuba could possibly join the ARW, and what happens there seems like an interesting thing to speculate. Cuba's success or failure in revolt probably depends on how much aid the Americans and allied navy's could sneak through, a motivated Cuban populace might be able to defeat land forces in the region, but I doubt it would be beyond British capabilities to hold down the island if it were a priority, Nova Scotia sympathized with the Americans OTL but was fairly impenetrable due to naval constraints. If repeated attempts failed, I could possibly see the British relenting if they couldn't get a decent foothold by war's end, though they may use it as a bargaining chip and doubtless would be loath to give up such a profitable colony, though by OTL's end part of the reason the British quit when they did was an increasing threat to their Caribbean assets. I don't think Canada is lost unless the Quebec Act fails, and even then Montreal and Halifax would not have been easily captured. I don't see why the Spanish wouldn't try to recapture the island, so it's possible they could get it back by end of the *ARW anyway. Continued British Cuba in these circumstances might not bode well for it, depending on how it was governed from then on, the British were responsive to the fairly small Rebellions of 1837 in Canada, so they may take proactive measures here to keep Cuba satisfied with British Rule. If that didn't happen, we may be looking at a history more like that of South Africa, and with likely American interest in supporting rebellion, this may be cause of continued poor Anglo-American relations throughout the 19th century, or beyond.
 
As it was stated before, Britain only conquered the area of Havana, no further. They would have had trouble governing so many Spaniards.

If somehow that did happen, I suspect Cuba would be very different as Britain's control of the slave trade would probably make great changes in short order. Spain never fully utilized the trade anywhere in their empire, not out of a moral code but bureaucratic incompetence. Britain would no doubt bring in far more slaves.

In OTL, most slaves in Cuba, Puerto Rico and Brazil arrived in the 19th century, after most of the other nations had abolished the trade.

Note that the British planter class in the West Indies, which were well represented in Parliament, would not necessarily welcomed a new competitor to the British sugar market either. Without question, a British (or French or Dutch or Portuguese) Cuba would be economically developed much better than in OTL.

I'm not sure it would have a whole lot of difference in the American Revolutionary War if Britain controlled Cuba. Smuggling from the Dutch West Indies would have been harder. Early on, this was vital to America getting powder.
Yes, yes, only Havana was conquered. But European treaties dont care what is actually occupied. Spain can cede the entire island as part of the Treaty of Paris in exchange for keeping Florida, the island is British at that point whether the Cubans acknowledge it or not that island is painted red on maps. Definitetly a South Africa type situation will develop though I am sure.
 
Definitetly a South Africa type situation will develop though I am sure.

And I hadn't even thought of possible attempts to "settle" Cuba with Anglo settlers and the inevitable import of Anglophone slaves, which would only add to the chaos as time went on. In retrospect, it's probably a really good thing this didn't happen.
 
What could also happen is after the Revolutionary War, if Cuba is taken by the US, the whole thing could become a mess of conflicting claims similar to the Northwest Territory, but the southern plantation owners would be much less willing to cede their claims on the highly plantation friendly and profitably island. (I doubt Cuba would be just taken in as a state if only because at that time the island mostly spoke Spanish).
 
What could also happen is after the Revolutionary War, if Cuba is taken by the US, the whole thing could become a mess of conflicting claims similar to the Northwest Territory, but the southern plantation owners would be much less willing to cede their claims on the highly plantation friendly and profitably island. (I doubt Cuba would be just taken in as a state if only because at that time the island mostly spoke Spanish).
The speaking Spanish isnt as much a problem as the worshipping Catholicism. Despite Maryland's original raison d'etre even it did not have a huge Catholic majority to sway popular opinion. Popular opinion in the colonies/US was highly prejudicial against Catholics.
 
The speaking Spanish isnt as much a problem as the worshipping Catholicism. Despite Maryland's original raison d'etre even it did not have a huge Catholic majority to sway popular opinion. Popular opinion in the colonies/US was highly prejudicial against Catholics.
This. We never managed to "woo" Quebec when the alternative was being tolerated (enough) under British rule, I think America taking Cuba here depends enormously on how the British govern in the interim, if they take measures against the established planter class, then the US might be able to offer a more secure future for them. I could see us swallowing the pill of a Catholic state if it was as large and profitable as Cuba, but if the Spanish pushed for it, and they very well could, they might just pursue getting Cuba back for themselves. This is all assuming there wasn't a slave rebellion at this time due to a vacuum in local authority, which would turn Cuba's *ARW period into an absolute bloodbath and probably hamper anyone's occupation. Giant Haiti, anyone?
 
The speaking Spanish isnt as much a problem as the worshipping Catholicism. Despite Maryland's original raison d'etre even it did not have a huge Catholic majority to sway popular opinion. Popular opinion in the colonies/US was highly prejudicial against Catholics.

But we still put a solid effort in trying to get Quebec.
 
Additional thought: The Spanish were fairly quick to trade Florida for retaining Cuba, understandably. If the British hold out regarding Cuba, could the Spanish make increasingly desperate counter-offers in exchange for keeping Cuba? Maybe Trinidad, receiving western Louisiana (instead of getting as compensation from France), or even something like the Philippines? I believe there was even a limited British interest in the La Plata region. Cuba was not a region they would've been given up easily.
 
Additional thought: The Spanish were fairly quick to trade Florida for retaining Cuba, understandably. If the British hold out regarding Cuba, could the Spanish make increasingly desperate counter-offers in exchange for keeping Cuba? Maybe Trinidad, receiving western Louisiana (instead of getting as compensation from France), or even something like the Philippines? I believe there was even a limited British interest in the La Plata region.
Oh no! You opened this into a British Argentina TL! Haha
 
Oh no! You opened this into a British Argentina TL! Haha

You mean how it would've invariably became an entirely-Anglicized stable democratic utopia? :p

I admit it's unlikely, but the French gave up their entire mainland North American holdings just for sugar islands.
 
The speaking Spanish isnt as much a problem as the worshipping Catholicism. Despite Maryland's original raison d'etre even it did not have a huge Catholic majority to sway popular opinion. Popular opinion in the colonies/US was highly prejudicial against Catholics.
That just makes the situation worse, since now there is going to be a ton of competition between states to evangelize the populace, since it would be seen that whoever really ended up evangelizing such and such village would be in control of it.
 
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