WI: Christians are Strict Vegetarians

Amit

What If,

Along with Christianity that we have today, there was a minute detail. NO meat. Strictly Vegetarian diet for followers. Not Vegan mind you, milk products would be ok. However, no meat, no fish, no poultry, no eggs...Perhaps some POD about being sickened by meat...some plague or bird flu that resulted in this "revision" to the religion

How would that affect the world? Would Christianity have a easier or harder time trying to reach the ends of the Earth?

Thoughts?
 

Keenir

Banned
Amit said:
What If,

Along with Christianity that we have today, there was a minute detail. NO meat. Strictly Vegetarian diet for followers. Not Vegan mind you, milk products would be ok. However, no meat, no fish, no poultry, no eggs...Perhaps some POD about being sickened by meat...some plague or bird flu that resulted in this "revision" to the religion

How would that affect the world? Would Christianity have a easier or harder time trying to reach the ends of the Earth?

Thoughts?
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for a long time, fish didn't count as meat. why is that different in this ATL? *curious*

also, what about insects? clams and squid?
 
MrP

MrP

Banned
So a different version of the verses in Acts which see the removal of all dietary prohibitions, eh?

Well, first off, it'll greatly decrease the number of members the Church takes in. Consequently, Christianity will never be as powerful as OTL. This won't be a problem during eras when people eat very little meat. Though it doesn't make a lot of sense, at the same time. After all, one keeps cows both for milk and for meat, and a lot of other animals are useful to humans for leather.

In the end I think such a step would cripple the growth of Christianity. That said, I could certainly see such a diet being adopted by the nascent priestly class. If you have it encouraged that one should give up all such pleasures to be closer to God, it might work.

However, that's your best bet, otherwise, one has to rewrite a lot of the gospels - no miracle of the loaves and fishes, recast the disciples who were fishermen, and various other parts . . .
 

Amit

true true, but dietary restrictions havent had much effect on the spread of other religions. islam has a thing about pork, judiasm is pretty strict with the kosher stuff, and hinduism is strict about being vegetarian as well.
 

Smaug

Seems to me it would affect traditionally pastoral people the most, making Christianity mostly intolerable. Also without peanuts and the other Vegi forms of protein, wouldn't they be rather malnourished in Europe? I apologize if i'm mistaken. I'm no nutritionist, and can't recall all the Vegi forms of Protein, or at least the good ones:/

Seems like a hellish way to live. I mean really, if God didn't want us to eat animals, he shouldn't have made them out of meat........just sayin:p
 

Keenir

Banned
Amit said:
true true, but dietary restrictions havent had much effect on the spread of other religions. islam has a thing about pork, judiasm is pretty strict with the kosher stuff,
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So they eat permissable meats.

What exactly will the devotees of this strict-Christianity do for food in the lands of the Lapp, for example?

or in deserts where almost no edible plants grow?

(does a drink made of blood+milk qualify as "meat"?)

and hinduism is strict about being vegetarian as well.
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Hendryk

Banned
Keenir said:
What exactly will the devotees of this strict-Christianity do for food in the lands of the Lapp, for example?

or in deserts where almost no edible plants grow?
Click to expand...
If this alternate Christianity insists on vegetarianism with the same pragmatism as Buddhism does in OTL, I don't think it would seriously impede its spread, including to areas in which a carnivorous diet is a matter of survival. After all, Mongols and Tibetans are Buddhist, and growing veggies isn't the easiest thing to do in the steppes of Mongolia or the plateaus of the Himalayas.
 

Keenir

Banned
Hendryk said:
If this alternate Christianity insists on vegetarianism with the same pragmatism as Buddhism does in OTL, I don't think it would seriously impede its spread, including to areas in which a carnivorous diet is a matter of survival. After all, Mongols and Tibetans are Buddhist, and growing veggies isn't the easiest thing to do in the steppes of Mongolia or the plateaus of the Himalayas.
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good point.

however, he did say this:
NO meat. Strictly Vegetarian diet for followers. Not Vegan mind you, milk products would be ok. However, no meat, no fish, no poultry, no eggs...
Click to expand...

so that strikes me as not allowing pragmatic views....at least not for the first few hundred years.....when a "Luther" comes about, and leads a break-away pragmatic sect.

hm. otherwise, a sea of herbivore-Christians, with islands of meat-eating Buddhists.
my head hurts now.:)

have nice days.
 

carlton_bach

A strictly vegetarian Christianity would have no chance of becoming a mass phenomenon. Both Greeks and Romans consumed animal protein as high-status foods and would have felt this demand a social demotion. Not to mention it would have destroyed their social lives, making it impossible to attend public feasts, dinner parties, the meetings of clubs and civic associations, and the invitations of their patron. As to the agro-pastoralist Germanic and Slavic peoples - forget it.

Of course that is not how religions work, sociologically speaking (a goode poynte Hendryk maketh). A Christianity raising vegetarianism to an *ideal* (and imposing it with greater strictness on its clergy and monks) would be an interesting phenomenon. We might see much less emphasis on meat in Europe's culinary history, and a stronger vegetarian tradition from an earlier date. The culinary revolutions of the Renaissance (a shift towards the separation of sweet and savoury, and the association of animal fats with high status) and the 19th century (the exit of complex spice blends in favour of consommees and concentrated natural flavours) would both be impossible in this scheme of things. European cuisine might look more like Indian. Quite possibly the Muslims would make more converts, too, if their mullahs don't look askance at the lord every time he takes a bite out of that drumstick. They were quite bemused as it was (the 15th century 'Decription of Familiar Foods' includes a chapter on "What monks eat, and Christians during Lent" for the instruction of the householder considering entertaining one such.
 

Melvin Loh

Welkl what about all the laws on diet in DEUT and LEV, which don't prohibit at all the believers' general consumption of meat ? How could any totally vegetarian 'Christian' ethic reconcile itself with such basic dietary tenets inherited from Judaism ?

BTW, i do believe however that certain Christian-derived cults/sects, like the SDA, do emphasise more vegetarian-oriented diets.
 

The Ubbergeek

The Kashrut (and for that matters, Halal) rules, while FORBIDING some foods, it do not say that you HAVE to eat somes others. And note that most of those rules concern meat, fish, poultry and cie.

So, you can very well see vegetarians and vegans jews (and muslims) in this era specially.

The key would ne the New Covenent (is that it's how it's called?). The New Testament and so on complete, but also and more, REPLACE the Old Testament. So, it is not that huge a step.
 
Mr_ Bondoc

Mr_ Bondoc

Some Major Problems...

-One major problem with the idea of strict vegetarianism, as described in the introduction is that it would have extremely limited appeal amongst either devout Aramaic Jews or the Mediterranean pagan population in the region. Consider that the symbols and apostles of Christianity were fishermen, shepherds, and farmers, all of whom would have looked down on such a practice...

-Second, consider that one of the reasons you don't see many vegetarian dishes in China, Thailand, the Philippines, and Indonesia was the heavy amount of tropical disease associated with the region. Just consider the 2006 E.Coli scares regarding spinach and broccoli. As such, consider that in the first-century Middle East, the region would have made waterborne disease synonamous with sickness. Just consider that vegetarian diets are natural laxatives, which are deadly in such an environment...

-Third, consider that prior to industrialization, meat was a major staple of jobs requiring hard labor (e.g. military conduct, blacksmiths, et al.). As such, societies that required these jobs would most likely frown on those requirements...
 

The Ubbergeek

Mr_ Bondoc said:
-Second, consider that one of the reasons you don't see many vegetarian dishes in China, Thailand, the Philippines, and Indonesia was the heavy amount of tropical disease associated with the region. Just consider the 2006 E.Coli scares regarding spinach and broccoli. As such, consider that in the first-century Middle East, the region would have made waterborne disease synonamous with sickness. Just consider that vegetarian diets are natural laxatives, which are deadly in such an environment...
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Minor point, there is a LOT of chinese vegetarian dishes, due to the buddhist tradiotion in China. They are master of the meat imitations, the story goes.
 
Mr_ Bondoc

Mr_ Bondoc

ACTUALLY!!

The Ubbergeek said:
Minor point, there is a LOT of chinese vegetarian dishes, due to the buddhist tradiotion in China. They are master of the meat imitations, the story goes.
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Mainly because of the massive famine and starvation in the region. Just consider that vegetarian dishes doesn't mean an adherence to strict vegetarianism. Imperial tributes often demanded that the Imperial officials get first helping of meat. Vegetarian dishes were seen only as a means to stretch food out. In fact Imperial Chinese history up until 1911 showed that Chinese Buddhists were often used as convenient targets of political purges and scapegoating throughout the various dynasties. Buddhists were shown the same cultural contempt as actors, military officials, and foreigners...

The generalization made would be just like the presentation of vegetarian burgers at Burger King's is supposedly a sign that all consumers are health conscious. Just remember that Taoism, Confucianism, and Animism have always outnumbered Buddhists, even before the partition by European missionaries and colonials...
 

King Gorilla

Well, I think its doubtful that christianity would prosper if Vegetarianism is a strict requirement for membership. However, I could easily see a situation where vegetarianism is lauded as a virtuous behavior with few lay members actually adopting that lifestyle. This isn't unprecedented in christianity, as celibacy was viewed as an admirable practice obviously not something that could be expected of everyone.
 

Tocomocho

If Christianism requires absolute vegetarianism it probably would never expand over Europe. Look at how many pork eat the Christians today, despite the Bible put it in the level of almost evil. If Europeans didn't renounce to pork, Do you think that they would renounce also to cow, goat, sheep and chicken? In that scenario the Roman Empire would remain classical pagan or become mostly Mitraist.
 
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